Alien: Covenant (2017)

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Se7en
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Se7en » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:18 pm

I've discovered the problem with these brands - y'all care too much about the lore
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Willowfang » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:49 pm

Se7en wrote:I've discovered the problem with these brands - y'all care too much about the lore
If not for the lore, what makes you a fan of something?

If we ignore the lore, how do you really tell the difference between F13, NOES, or Halloween, why then do some fans hate RZ's Halloweens so much

Lore is what gives you something to sink your teeth into or to know when the sequel fucked something up or jumped the shark
2017 Song Draft
S B - Gonna Get over You
K - Come with Me Now
M M - You're So Vain
D G Sia - Titanium
T S - Bad Blood
M & S - Hopeless Wanderer
T - 50 Ways to Say Goodbye
B - Pompeii
C C - Safe And Sound
Swedish House Mafia - Don't You Worry Child

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Se7en
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Se7en » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:24 pm

Willowfang wrote:
Se7en wrote:I've discovered the problem with these brands - y'all care too much about the lore
If not for the lore, what makes you a fan of something?
The quality of the work. You guys are interested in the story, I'm interested in how the story is told. Only franchise I really fuck with is Halloween, and that's almost purely because of Zombie.
Willowfang wrote:If we ignore the lore, how do you really tell the difference between F13, NOES, or Halloween, why then do some fans hate RZ's Halloweens so much
Because they're insane manchildren blinded by a nostalgic yearning for how they feel these movies should operate. More than a few Zombie detractors have admitted they would like his Halloween better if it wasn't part of the franchise. Says it all right there.
Willowfang wrote:Lore is what gives you something to sink your teeth into or to know when the sequel fucked something up or jumped the shark
The problem with this type of stuff is it gets people's minds going beyond where any filmmaker or studio is willing to take it. You guys have an encyclopedia of minute details that are always going to be lost movie after movie, especially in a franchise that has existed since the 70's. There are books, canon movies, comics, spin off movies... often different writers and takes. Of course there are going to be things that overlap and contradict themselves. Just think y'all are setting yourself up for disappointment when the final product probably isn't going to give a shit about most of what came before.
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by McStuffin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Willowfang wrote:
McStuffin wrote:The story of Xenomorph evolution has gotten convoluted and the revelation that it has human DNA in it is downright disappointing. It's supposed to be alien, very alien.
I never really thought of them as having human DNA. When I first saw part 3, I took it as they adapt to their prey. So obviously they are born and grow to be somewhat like what they pop out of, but to me, it's more like they sample the thing they pop out of, and become an APEX predator over that species, rather than being dependent on it for it's life cycle

Remember how messed up the thing that Clone/Hybrid Ripley gave birth to was? I don't see them as able to "breed" with other species if you get what I mean
Oh, I was referring to the evolution of the "Deacon" in Prometheus which I assume (maybe I'm wrong) is the base form of the xenomorph. So to get that: Holloway had to be infected with the black goo. Then he had to have sex with Shaw, who gives birth to the mega facehugger. Then the facehugger has to implant another embryo into an Engineer - all to make this Alien precursor. That's what I meant by convoluted and having human DNA. So now instead of Aliens coming from Queens, they spawn from random biological events somewhat instigated by a mischievous android playing with black goo, which might come from mushrooms.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Willowfang » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:11 pm

@ Se7en

But if you go with those thoughts, then sequels are pointless, doesn't matter if someone tried to continue a story, or even if it was all conceived as a bigger story altogether, Godfather, LOTR, Star Wars, no other part of the so called story has any business being part of another movie, only what's released all at once as one film counts

So Death Proof and Planet Terror are actually one story... somehow....
2017 Song Draft
S B - Gonna Get over You
K - Come with Me Now
M M - You're So Vain
D G Sia - Titanium
T S - Bad Blood
M & S - Hopeless Wanderer
T - 50 Ways to Say Goodbye
B - Pompeii
C C - Safe And Sound
Swedish House Mafia - Don't You Worry Child

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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Se7en » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:42 pm

Willowfang wrote:@ Se7en

But if you go with those thoughts, then sequels are pointless, doesn't matter if someone tried to continue a story, or even if it was all conceived as a bigger story altogether, Godfather, LOTR, Star Wars, no other part of the so called story has any business being part of another movie, only what's released all at once as one film counts

So Death Proof and Planet Terror are actually one story... somehow....
You can take the bigger story into consideration when looking at the trilogy, it's just strange to talk about the technicalities of it when going from movie to movie. Marvel/Star Wars films are always made with the next few in mind, completely negating stakes, tension, and creative freedom. I can be forgiving with Godfather and LOTR because those are stories that more time to tell the story of the books. They exist as they are in a bottle, whereas others will never end until the money does.

"I didn't like how they did this, I didn't like how they did that. They should have done this. Oh, wouldn't it be cool if ______ was in the movie, or _____ was explained?". Fanboys who grew up with these things almost take the role of the writer themselves. It's like bro... not gonna happen. Studios want it to grow, they want the fan service, but at the end of the day they're going to adhere to a set structure/formula that's gonna be more of the same.
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Willowfang » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:58 pm

^errrrr....

That's just story telling tho, even all parts of say Star Wars is gonna have it's 3 act structure

With an on going/open ended series like the horror slashers, or say the Expendables, Ghostbusters, James Bond (since most follow short stores and there's not much to stick to really), you get some cannon, and speculate what could happen with given elements in a hypothetical situation

Basically the same in sports when you say, nah, this team is gonna win on Sunday cause his long game won't be slowed down by their "good" defense cause he does this to that (I'm sure you get what I mean, I dunno a great way to phrase this)
2017 Song Draft
S B - Gonna Get over You
K - Come with Me Now
M M - You're So Vain
D G Sia - Titanium
T S - Bad Blood
M & S - Hopeless Wanderer
T - 50 Ways to Say Goodbye
B - Pompeii
C C - Safe And Sound
Swedish House Mafia - Don't You Worry Child

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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Se7en » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:18 pm

Willowfang wrote: That's just story telling tho, even all parts of say Star Wars is gonna have it's 3 act structure
Not what I'm saying. You can break the vast majority of films into an act structure.

I just mean getting from point A to point B, not that these points are there. They hit the same notes, explain things in the same way, stay safe. That first hour of Rogue One... I've seen that movie a thousand times over. It's like that because for your average moviegoer, it's familiar and comforting. They can jive with it because they have repeatedly before. Their brains don't have to adjust to taking in a different experience in even a slightly different way.
Willowfang wrote:With an on going/open ended series like the horror slashers, or say the Expendables, Ghostbusters, James Bond (since most follow short stores and there's not much to stick to really), you get some cannon, and speculate what could happen with given elements in a hypothetical situation
That's fine. I'm cool with that stuff honestly, it's only the "tune in next year!" feel of Disney with Marvel and Star Wars that gets me. Nothing wrong with being invested in the lore, but when people care more about that than they do the filmmaking, I get lost. Nerds.
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Willowfang » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:31 pm

Se7en wrote:That's fine. I'm cool with that stuff honestly, it's only the "tune in next year!" feel of Disney with Marvel and Star Wars that gets me. Nothing wrong with being invested in the lore, but when people care more about that than they do the filmmaking, I get lost. Nerds.
Hmm, I mean, I can see enjoy it for what it is, like "regardless of lore, I just care if my time is well spent"

But if the next part is just all over the place from the lore in the parts before, I'm sure you'd be scratching your head if the the continuity was pretty goofy

And generally series's have an arc, but the arc may get fucked up cause too many cooks wind up spoiling the soup or however that metaphor goes

But remember with Marvel, they're also working with 50+ years of history depending on the character and/or plot point, so there's a lot the fan are going to expect or notice, and often the fans are gonna be better fact checkers than the writers
2017 Song Draft
S B - Gonna Get over You
K - Come with Me Now
M M - You're So Vain
D G Sia - Titanium
T S - Bad Blood
M & S - Hopeless Wanderer
T - 50 Ways to Say Goodbye
B - Pompeii
C C - Safe And Sound
Swedish House Mafia - Don't You Worry Child

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Se7en
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Re: Alien: Covenant (2017)

Post by Se7en » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:40 pm

Willowfang wrote:
Se7en wrote:That's fine. I'm cool with that stuff honestly, it's only the "tune in next year!" feel of Disney with Marvel and Star Wars that gets me. Nothing wrong with being invested in the lore, but when people care more about that than they do the filmmaking, I get lost. Nerds.
Hmm, I mean, I can see enjoy it for what it is, like "regardless of lore, I just care if my time is well spent"

But if the next part is just all over the place from the lore in the parts before, I'm sure you'd be scratching your head if the the continuity was pretty goofy

And generally series's have an arc, but the arc may get fucked up cause too many cooks wind up spoiling the soup or however that metaphor goes

But remember with Marvel, they're also working with 50+ years of history depending on the character and/or plot point, so there's a lot the fan are going to expect or notice, and often the fans are gonna be better fact checkers than the writers
I agree with all this :)
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