Official WWE Thread

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by _Blakelock_ » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:10 pm

I've pretty much come to accept that I'll read about both shows and keep up but I won't be watching. I might catch a clip or two on Youtube but that's enough for me. I'm fine with this way, I don't feel like I'm wasting my time.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:10 pm

TexasSnacks wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:20 pm
Se7en wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:50 pm
It's all about the booking, writing, and where certain guys are placed. Vince is stuck in the 80's.
Yea it's all on Vince at the end of the day and it won't change till he is gone. However, if you listen to some of the older guys who were over, they said they would fight tooth and nail with Vince if they believed in something. Guys now days don't do that it seems.
Nope, only a select few can do that. I know The Shield does, as well as Kevin Owens off the top of my head. I think him and AJ have a good relationship too. Vince respects people who fight back - this is where the whole John Morrison/Melina/Batista situation comes into play; if he sees you as a beta, you're done. If you look at the top stars over the years, they've all gone toe to toe with him. Kurt Angle had to legit choke him out to get him to stop fucking with him.

Ambrose wanted to use thumbtacks in his match with Jericho and was literally just saying come on over and over. He then said that the smarks are dumb for thinking its dangerous, that they're smart because they know its not, and that's what got him to agree to it. Jericho told a story where he pitched an idea and Vince said "bad cow", referring to his steak, and couldn't give a shit about the idea. There's no rhyme or reason with this guy. It's his playground.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Midnight-Kroovy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:44 pm

It's not true that the indies are booming right now, it's just got potential and been doing slightly better to the flatlining its been doing the last 15 years. UK is always used as an example of booming indie wrestling and while there are some promotions doing modestly (i've got to go to much better shows this year, might be going to Global Wars next month) hardly anyone is making good money, What Culture wrestling I think is going down the toilet and World Of Sport died quicker than 1PW... It doesn't even compare to when indies were actually booming.

Standards of psychology and being believable is so low in wrestling these days that it hurts it. With great psychology you can do very little in the ring but very rarely do I see that on the indies, it's the opposite. Most of the time the matches and moves don't make a lick of sense unless you are a diehard. Catering to diehards is fine if thats your audience but you won't grow and diehards don't know shit and push things in the wrong direction. NJPW sometimes has good psychology (and it does have variety) but I still occasionally find myself rolling my eyes and it never fully quenches my thirst as an alternative.

I think when wrestling stopped being protected and every Tom, Dick and Harry could train to be a wrestler in the early 00s it hurt its future. Vast majority of indie wrestlers now look like cosplayers who no one would be threatened by in a dark alley. Perception used to be everything in wrestling and its suffered pretty badly. At the Rev Pro shows I'm taller than 80% of the roster at only 6ft and guys like Scurll are dicking about with fans, shitting on kayfabe and being "meta" so nerds can blow him. Long gone are the days of Wrestler's being badasses.

I agree with most critisms of WWE, especially the writing and I've basically stopped watching Raw and Smackdown now :( . But for all its glaring faults no one else is picking up the ball. 99% of indie guys would jump to wwe in a heartbeat showing there is no alternative.

As a lifelong fan I'm dying for some change and good wrestling. Maybe if someone makes a move when Bryan's contract runs out next year and also get Punk or someone they could make waves. Not holding my breath though.

Sorry for the rant but God does it depress me and I need to vent.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:41 am

Midnight-Kroovy wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:44 pm
It's not true that the indies are booming right now, it's just got potential and been doing slightly better to the flatlining its been doing the last 15 years. UK is always used as an example of booming indie wrestling and while there are some promotions doing modestly (i've got to go to much better shows this year, might be going to Global Wars next month) hardly anyone is making good money, What Culture wrestling I think is going down the toilet and World Of Sport died quicker than 1PW... It doesn't even compare to when indies were actually booming.

Standards of psychology and being believable is so low in wrestling these days that it hurts it. With great psychology you can do very little in the ring but very rarely do I see that on the indies, it's the opposite. Most of the time the matches and moves don't make a lick of sense unless you are a diehard. Catering to diehards is fine if thats your audience but you won't grow and diehards don't know shit and push things in the wrong direction. NJPW sometimes has good psychology (and it does have variety) but I still occasionally find myself rolling my eyes and it never fully quenches my thirst as an alternative.

I think when wrestling stopped being protected and every Tom, Dick and Harry could train to be a wrestler in the early 00s it hurt its future. Vast majority of indie wrestlers now look like cosplayers who no one would be threatened by in a dark alley. Perception used to be everything in wrestling and its suffered pretty badly. At the Rev Pro shows I'm taller than 80% of the roster at only 6ft and guys like Scurll are dicking about with fans, shitting on kayfabe and being "meta" so nerds can blow him. Long gone are the days of Wrestler's being badasses.

I agree with most critisms of WWE, especially the writing and I've basically stopped watching Raw and Smackdown now :( . But for all its glaring faults no one else is picking up the ball. 99% of indie guys would jump to wwe in a heartbeat showing there is no alternative.

As a lifelong fan I'm dying for some change and good wrestling. Maybe if someone makes a move when Bryan's contract runs out next year and also get Punk or someone they could make waves. Not holding my breath though.

Sorry for the rant but God does it depress me and I need to vent.
Meltz says it's the best time he can remember since the territory days for business. Bullet Club has shirts in hot topic. There are countless guys making solid livings on the indies, a lot making great ones, and a few competing with the top of WWE.

I can't even can't with your Japan comment. I'd like to know what good psychology is lol

It's not about being believable or buying these people. We ain't kids anymore, wrestling's fake
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Midnight-Kroovy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:44 am

Se7en wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:41 am
Meltz says it's the best time he can remember since the territory days for business. Bullet Club has shirts in hot topic. There are countless guys making solid livings on the indies, a lot making great ones, and a few competing with the top of WWE.

I can't even can't with your Japan comment. I'd like to know what good psychology is lol

It's not about being believable or buying these people. We ain't kids anymore, wrestling's fake
Best since territory days means little, its been terrible since territory days. Meltz even refrains himself from saying "Booming". Bullet club are doing great, thats one stable...Majority aren't making a good living, that's why its a HUGE risk leaving WWE...

It's 100% about buying into people, thats what wrestling is. People would rather pay to watch badasses fight than average joes, always been that way always will.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by _Blakelock_ » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:13 am

I used to hate on UFC because I didn't see a point in going out and really hurting each other for people's entertainment. Now I still don't care for it but I understand, people are tired of the fake shit that wrestling in. Back in the 80's and (most) of the 90's you could still believe wrestling was real. These days suspending disbelief is almost impossible.

The WWE has people losing to simple moves, like the AA or the Cobra Clutch Slam, which both moves look really fake anyway, but having people lose to them makes it worse. Then you have indie companies and Japanese wrestling where these guys are hitting all these dangerous looking killer fucking moves and still kicking out, again it's hard to suspend disbelief when you see that shit.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Midnight-Kroovy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:44 am
Se7en wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:41 am
Meltz says it's the best time he can remember since the territory days for business. Bullet Club has shirts in hot topic. There are countless guys making solid livings on the indies, a lot making great ones, and a few competing with the top of WWE.

I can't even can't with your Japan comment. I'd like to know what good psychology is lol

It's not about being believable or buying these people. We ain't kids anymore, wrestling's fake
Best since territory days means little, its been terrible since territory days. Meltz even refrains himself from saying "Booming". Bullet club are doing great, thats one stable...Majority aren't making a good living, that's why its a HUGE risk leaving WWE...

It's 100% about buying into people, thats what wrestling is. People would rather pay to watch badasses fight than average joes, always been that way always will.
A very few number of people wrestling (in the grand scheme of things) can do it without some other type of job. My point is that there's a significant number of guys touring these indies and making it work, and that's not even getting into the popular guys who headline PWG/Evolve and of course those promotions who do have TV. Mexico?!?!?! Meltzer even questions if they can go from 2k to 10k next year for G1 US special, but I think they can. Regardless, none of this would have even been a conversation just a few years ago, a few guys aside.

If y'all want slow, boring, "smart" wrestling that ends where you think it should under the guise or "realism", you can keep that shit. WWE has followed the same finisher fest main event formula for almost a decade, get outta here. More headlocks more wrist locks yeah sell that basic move for 30 seconds and lets move around the ring with no sense of urgency at all, all this after terrible promos segments TV matches leading up to this. It blows my mind that you can't see the sports presentation, stiff work, and performance of wrestlers in New Japan. Only the hardcore fans can see the stories/psychology? Huh? You mean the people who watch the show and think? Lol

Idk man all I see here is the mark in y'all talking, clinging to the idea that the WWE is still the be all end all (which it is for money, now) and being apologists for a style that you've been brainwashed into thinking is the right way to work. What worked in decades past isn't always going to work now, and the wrestling that's getting over now and rising in business are the harder worked, fast paced strong/lucha styles. Don't tell me arenas chant AJ Styles every damn week because he's SUCH a great promo and character. These fucking morons would chant this is awesome at a ceiling fan. He brought them to heaven and back with his work.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:42 pm

These Sami Callihan quotes with "WWE style" in mind...

A conversation he had with Triple H after a match with Apollo Crews:

"I remember before the match Apollo goes, 'do you tonight. If we get in trouble I'll take the blame.' I remember getting pulled to the back from HHH and he was like, 'where has this guy been for the last year.' I kinda had to bite my tongue, but lucky enough people like Norman Smiley and Billy Gunn straight up came up to him and was like, 'this is the guy that's been main eventing a lot of your house shows against Finn Balor and Kevin Owens and having killer matches, but then it comes to TV and you book him like a jobber.'"

After a great match with Xaiver Woods on a house show

"And I got to the back, and I got zero credit for it. I was told If Xaiver wasn't in this match, it probably would have been a trainwreck, and you're way too violent. And I'm like, what? And then I was told, they wanted me to like make my style more smooth, and work more holds, be less violent with my strikes. And I'm kinda like "that's not me at all"

Bryan: Did it just look violent? Isn't the whole idea to make it look violent?

"...they didn't like my forearm to the back of the head, they said that's too violent for the crowd, they didn't like all my kicks to the head, said that was too violent for the crowd. They said I was too aggressive for my size and I need to be more smooth. And I remember a talk with HHH later on "you're not aggressive enough" and I'm like "well i was told I was too aggressive, so I really don't know what to do at this point"

Great thing about NXT is HHH seems to love all styles, gimmicks/stiff work/sequences/different paces. Not so much flippy shit but whatever can't have everything now can we

edit

And no, those strikes are not dangerous.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Midnight-Kroovy » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:31 pm

You're arguement doesn't make sense and is bizarre, you are the one watching WWE not me...

WWE is guilty for practically all the points I made, its been shit for ages yet no one has stepped up and offered a good alternative to recapture the millions of fans that have tuned out. GFW is still in the dumpster and looks like Lucha Underground is probably gonna die soon. I liked LU's attitude and they had some great matches but I could never get on board with their premise.

ROH and NJPW are fine for what they are but they don't quench my thirst, after a couple of shows or TV they usually lose my interest. I don't see them growing into proper competition unless they make a few plays and rolls of the dice.

I stated that the indies are the best they've been in 15 years and have potential. It's not booming though and needs to win back A LOT of people.

If you think "smart" wrestling is slow and boring then thats fine, I can accept your opinion. Just understand that people have different tastes and not everyone bows down to worship the stiff, 100 knees to face aerial wrestling or wrestlers.

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by _Blakelock_ » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:38 pm

Midnight-Kroovy wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:31 pm
If you think "smart" wrestling is slow and boring then thats fine, I can accept your opinion. Just understand that people have different tastes and not everyone bows down to worship the stiff, 100 knees to face aerial wrestling or wrestlers.
This. I picked up the HBK DVD a few weeks back and watched this great match of The Rockers Vs. The Brain Busters. No stiff shots, no over the top spots, and it was damn exciting to watch the two teams work together and against each other. Everything they did in the ring made sense, and the match ended up being great. Why can't they do these matches now? Cause no one gives a shit about psychology, it's hit a bunch of trademark spots and wrap it up.

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