Official WWE Thread

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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Mr. Awesome » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:57 am

I wanted to go to a Kaiju Big Battel show in Brooklyn. Couldn't believe how fast it sold out. At least I know they come here now.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by TexasSnacks » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm

Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:43 am

- Sorry, this is like when people watch The Neon Demon and give it a half star review when some shitty comedy gets three stars. There's talent being showcased behind the camera that can't be denied, because it's right there in front of you. What's happening here is the same thing that happens with film, people use their biases as justification for their perceived problems with the work. It's all about your feels, not the skill being displayed in front of you.
I get what you are saying here but just because something/someone is showing skill doesn't make it good or enjoyable. I can appreciate the technical skill, direction etc of The Neon Demon but that doesn't automatically mean I have to give it two thumbs up.

Take someone like Curtis Axel (I'm sure there are better examples). Solid technical and skilled wrestler but boring as hell to me. I can appreciate his technical ability but doesn't mean I'm going to buy a ticket to see him or not fast forward when he is on the screen.

At the end of the day it is about feels. You feels is behind the camera work/technical in ring skil, others it's in front of camera/characters and storylines. i.e. Curtis Axel vs Enzo. Why does your feels outweigh others?
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:57 pm

TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm
Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:43 am

- Sorry, this is like when people watch The Neon Demon and give it a half star review when some shitty comedy gets three stars. There's talent being showcased behind the camera that can't be denied, because it's right there in front of you. What's happening here is the same thing that happens with film, people use their biases as justification for their perceived problems with the work. It's all about your feels, not the skill being displayed in front of you.
I get what you are saying here but just because something/someone is showing skill doesn't make it good or enjoyable. I can appreciate the technical skill, direction etc of The Neon Demon but that doesn't automatically mean I have to give it two thumbs up.

Take someone like Curtis Axel (I'm sure there are better examples). Solid technical and skilled wrestler but boring as hell to me. I can appreciate his technical ability but doesn't mean I'm going to buy a ticket to see him or not fast forward when he is on the screen.

At the end of the day it is about feels. You feels is behind the camera work/technical in ring skil, others it's in front of camera/characters and storylines. i.e. Curtis Axel vs Enzo. Why does your feels outweigh others?
This is the very thing. When I talk about the vibes I get from ND and the like, the energy I feel watching these movies, the inspiration they give me, that's all subjective and entirely based on my own biases. When I start talking about the themes, the direction, the score/visuals, that can't be argued with beyond personal interpretations of the themes. Whether you think the technical work matters or not is your own thing too, it just becomes a problem when you make sweeping generalizations, talk shit about it, or try to break it down like the technical work isn't that great.

For example, a "pretentious, shallow, derivative art exercise" critique can be translated to

"No psychology, lots of moves, too many near falls"

It's not only stupid in both cases, it's lazy as fuuuuuuuuck. And it almost ALWAYS comes from people who aren't accustomed to the style in the first place or are casual viewers. Always.

I think Curtis Axel - if you looked him up in the dictionary - would be "safe, basic professional wrestler". What a terrible example, you must watch WWE. ;) at least say Lance Storm or Dean Malenko or something, jeez.

edit

I feel like I should remind people that if I care enough about something to write about it at length and think about it in detail, people's "feels", especially that of casual or non-viewers, means absolutely nothing to me. Use your words. How you felt about wrestling when you were a teenager in the attitude era doesn't hold weight when you're talking shit about how far wrestling has fallen since. You were out living your life (well, you know) or doing shit. You have no legs to stand on.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:02 pm

Fuck it, my feels do outweigh others btw. You don't see me on food forums talking about how the McDouble is my favorite meal on the planet. Don't speak about shit you don't know nothing about.

(not referring to anyone here, talking about random poster #335 who pops in here to talk about the attitude era)
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by TexasSnacks » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:27 pm

Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:57 pm
TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm
Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:43 am

- Sorry, this is like when people watch The Neon Demon and give it a half star review when some shitty comedy gets three stars. There's talent being showcased behind the camera that can't be denied, because it's right there in front of you. What's happening here is the same thing that happens with film, people use their biases as justification for their perceived problems with the work. It's all about your feels, not the skill being displayed in front of you.
I get what you are saying here but just because something/someone is showing skill doesn't make it good or enjoyable. I can appreciate the technical skill, direction etc of The Neon Demon but that doesn't automatically mean I have to give it two thumbs up.

Take someone like Curtis Axel (I'm sure there are better examples). Solid technical and skilled wrestler but boring as hell to me. I can appreciate his technical ability but doesn't mean I'm going to buy a ticket to see him or not fast forward when he is on the screen.

At the end of the day it is about feels. You feels is behind the camera work/technical in ring skil, others it's in front of camera/characters and storylines. i.e. Curtis Axel vs Enzo. Why does your feels outweigh others?
This is the very thing. When I talk about the vibes I get from ND and the like, the energy I feel watching these movies, the inspiration they give me, that's all subjective and entirely based on my own biases. When I start talking about the themes, the direction, the score/visuals, that can't be argued with beyond personal interpretations of the themes. Whether you think the technical work matters or not is your own thing too, it just becomes a problem when you make sweeping generalizations, talk shit about it, or try to break it down like the technical work isn't that great.

For example, a "pretentious, shallow, derivative art exercise" critique can be translated to

"No psychology, lots of moves, too many near falls"

It's not only stupid in both cases, it's lazy as fuuuuuuuuck. And it almost ALWAYS comes from people who aren't accustomed to the style in the first place or are casual viewers. Always.

I think Curtis Axel - if you looked him up in the dictionary - would be "safe, basic professional wrestler". What a terrible example, you must watch WWE. ;) at least say Lance Storm or Dean Malenko or something, jeez.

edit

I feel like I should remind people that if I care enough about something to write about it at length and think about it in detail, people's "feels", especially that of casual or non-viewers, means absolutely nothing to me. Use your words. How you felt about wrestling when you were a teenager in the attitude era doesn't hold weight when you're talking shit about how far wrestling has fallen since. You were out living your life (well, you know) or doing shit. You have no legs to stand on.
I feel ya on the ND stuff and get where you are coming from.

Curtis Axel just came to mind because it was someone we would probably all know and he was on RAW Monday so he was fresh on my mind. There are plenty of indie/WWE/ guys that are similar. Great technical in ring ability but no substance.

I have no problem admitting I'm a WWE guy though. I know my lane. 8-)
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by TexasSnacks » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:02 pm
Fuck it, my feels do outweigh others btw. You don't see me on food forums talking about how the McDouble is my favorite meal on the planet. Don't speak about shit you don't know nothing about.

(not referring to anyone here, talking about random poster #335 who pops in here to talk about the attitude era)
:lol: I know what you are talking about. As a football coach, I have a hard time reading comments on a football site, ESPN, NFL etc. and discussing technical aspects of football with idiots who didn't even play high school ball.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:15 pm

TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:32 pm
Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:02 pm
Fuck it, my feels do outweigh others btw. You don't see me on food forums talking about how the McDouble is my favorite meal on the planet. Don't speak about shit you don't know nothing about.

(not referring to anyone here, talking about random poster #335 who pops in here to talk about the attitude era)
:lol: I know what you are talking about. As a football coach, I have a hard time reading comments on a football site, ESPN, NFL etc. and discussing technical aspects of football with idiots who didn't even play high school ball.
Preach. There's a very fine line between snobby asshole and educated fan that I'm far too egotistical to stay on the right side of a lot of the time. Because these days, everybody's educated, everybody has to get their cents in... on everything. I can't take it.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:24 pm

TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Curtis Axel just came to mind because it was someone we would probably all know and he was on RAW Monday so he was fresh on my mind. There are plenty of indie/WWE/ guys that are similar. Great technical in ring ability but no substance.
Word, and I'm very conscious of what a lot of these guys on the indies need, don't have, whatever to get over with a larger audience. I'm not saying have 30+ minute matches one after another with no promo time. There's no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds. Also, you can even make these guys with no personality have personality by giving them characters that work with that. I thought Chris Benoit was one of the baddest dudes on the planet as a kid. He was the "rabid wolverine" who just fucked people up. Kroovy even mentioned the MMA/shooter type gimmicks. Did I have that same response to Lance Storm? No.

Like, when NJPW guys get their characters and stories over better in short videos, walking to the ring, and post match interviews compared to WWE, why is that? What's going on here?
TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:27 pm
have no problem admitting I'm a WWE guy though. I know my lane. 8-)
All of you usually do, think I finally triggered Kroovy :lol:
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by TexasSnacks » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:47 pm

Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:24 pm
TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Curtis Axel just came to mind because it was someone we would probably all know and he was on RAW Monday so he was fresh on my mind. There are plenty of indie/WWE/ guys that are similar. Great technical in ring ability but no substance.
Word, and I'm very conscious of what a lot of these guys on the indies need, don't have, whatever to get over with a larger audience. I'm not saying have 30+ minute matches one after another with no promo time. There's no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds. Also, you can even make these guys with no personality have personality by giving them characters that work with that. I thought Chris Benoit was one of the baddest dudes on the planet as a kid. He was the "rabid wolverine" who just fucked people up. Kroovy even mentioned the MMA/shooter type gimmicks. Did I have that same response to Lance Storm? No.
True. And that's what gets me too. There has always been good workers who didn't have charisma, promo skills, etc. but what did they do in the 70s, 80s, 90s? They were put with people had those qualities either in tags/stables or with managers. What's crazy is Vince is stuck in the 80's and 90's with certain but not the things that actually worked.
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Re: Official WWE Thread

Post by Se7en » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:49 pm

TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:47 pm
Se7en wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:24 pm
TexasSnacks wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Curtis Axel just came to mind because it was someone we would probably all know and he was on RAW Monday so he was fresh on my mind. There are plenty of indie/WWE/ guys that are similar. Great technical in ring ability but no substance.
Word, and I'm very conscious of what a lot of these guys on the indies need, don't have, whatever to get over with a larger audience. I'm not saying have 30+ minute matches one after another with no promo time. There's no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds. Also, you can even make these guys with no personality have personality by giving them characters that work with that. I thought Chris Benoit was one of the baddest dudes on the planet as a kid. He was the "rabid wolverine" who just fucked people up. Kroovy even mentioned the MMA/shooter type gimmicks. Did I have that same response to Lance Storm? No.
True. And that's what gets me too. There has always been good workers who didn't have charisma, promo skills, etc. but what did they do in the 70s, 80s, 90s? They were put with people had those qualities either in tags/stables or with managers. What's crazy is Vince is stuck in the 80's and 90's with certain but not the things that actually worked.
So true. :(
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