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  • Originally posted by Severn
    You really don't need to read all of Crisis. If anything you just need to know that Kal-L, Superboy Prime, Lois and Alex survived. Everything else is explained in the IC as they story moves on through dialog or narrative panel. It's really not hard -at all. For those who don't get it -their loss. I can suggest a Spawn comic or two that's more their level.

    If anything I've heard people complain about how the small characters get too much screen time per say in the comic. Even during Countdown I've heard that. Which is just stupid. The B-C listers are what make any comic universe special.
    Double post....sorry.
    Last edited by Straker; 03-09-2006, 11:43 AM.

    In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

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    • Originally posted by Severn
      You really don't need to read all of Crisis. If anything you just need to know that Kal-L, Superboy Prime, Lois and Alex survived. Everything else is explained in the IC as they story moves on through dialog or narrative panel. It's really not hard -at all. For those who don't get it -their loss. I can suggest a Spawn comic or two that's more their level.

      If anything I've heard people complain about how the small characters get too much screen time per say in the comic. Even during Countdown I've heard that. Which is just stupid. The B-C listers are what make any comic universe special.
      I don't mind the B-Listers getting some spotlight, a lot of them are more interesting then some of the A-listers. But you have to admit that IC is not written from a fresh reader's perspective, and you do require a certain amount of DC knowlege to follow the story's major beats. Take the first issue, the last "shocking" page revealed absolutely nothing to me. Most people assume (and logically so) that Superman was Superboy at some point, and Alex Luthor looks like a red-headed Iron Man reject -- so unless you know about multiversing and whatnot, all of that means nothing. Then you gotta know about the Flashes to get their scene, hell, I still don't know what a speed force is or why it can or cannot contain anyone. Then there's Diana's island, which magically dissappears...somehow...which is important...I guess. You even need somone to give you the gist of the 4 boring miniseries that lead up to IC, just so you can follow why there are evil robots and explody rocks in Gotham.

      For a lot of new readers, that means a fair amount of research that does not necessarily pay off. 'IC' is more of a salute to old fans. Going in fresh, the story lacks a lot of the wieght it should have, and has been generally "meh" (biggest DC story in the last 10 years, and not a single major death yet) -- with the exception of the Superboy issue. Thanfully for them, DC had the foresight to launch OYL halfway through.

      In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

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      • Originally posted by White_Rabbit

        Captain America
        : As a small weak little person. He allows himself to be experimented on so that he can help his country.
        I'd consider Bucky's tragic [but assumed] death to play a large role on the development of the character as well.

        In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

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        • Originally posted by Straker
          I'd consider Bucky's tragic [but assumed] death to play a large role on the development of the character as well.
          Ah yes, I'll be honest... my knowledge of Captain America isn't as good as say Batman, Superman or Spiderman. I know very little about him.

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          • does anyone know why the comics are shiping on a tuesday instead of normal Wednesday next week

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            • Originally posted by Porn N Gore
              does anyone know why the comics are shiping on a tuesday instead of normal Wednesday next week
              I blame the communists.
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              • Originally posted by Porn N Gore
                does anyone know why the comics are shiping on a tuesday instead of normal Wednesday next week
                Maybe they are trying to make up for all the fuckups and late shipments they've been pulling these last few months.

                In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

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                • i blame....well..i dontk now what...but still On a tuesday?....thats just wrong....

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                  • I'd just like to note that I think you're way off Straker. Maybe IC's not written from a brand new reader's perspective, but I haven't really felt "meh" about it since it started. I don't really understand why you feel like complete knowledge to get into the story. I remember hearing a quote a long time ago that if Alan Moore had been allowed to use the old characters he had intended in Watchmen, people would claim that they'd need complete knowledge of all of their past stories to enjoy it. It's rediculous. If you can't enjoy the story at face value, then there's no point in you reading it in the first place...nor is there any reason for you to bitch about it, especially when your own self-professed reason for not enjoying the story is your own ignorance. I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but I'm just sick to death of hearing the same shit over and over.
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                    • Originally posted by alleywaykrew
                      I'd just like to note that I think you're way off Straker. Maybe IC's not written from a brand new reader's perspective, but I haven't really felt "meh" about it since it started. I don't really understand why you feel like complete knowledge to get into the story. I remember hearing a quote a long time ago that if Alan Moore had been allowed to use the old characters he had intended in Watchmen, people would claim that they'd need complete knowledge of all of their past stories to enjoy it. It's rediculous. If you can't enjoy the story at face value, then there's no point in you reading it in the first place...nor is there any reason for you to bitch about it, especially when your own self-professed reason for not enjoying the story is your own ignorance. I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, but I'm just sick to death of hearing the same shit over and over.
                      Seems pretty personal to me. :confused:

                      It's just not a great series for new readers, you can even tell that by some of the posts on this very thread. It's not that I'm hating the story, but that it definately suffers because of this. Then again, it's just another comic in my pile and I'm not rushing to the store in anticipation for each cliffhanger like I am for 'The Ultimates' -- and that ships bi-monthly at best. Even you have to admit that a lot of what's in IC is a nod to old readers. I never said that it was incomprehensible or god awful, just not a very good suggestion to someone new to comics or DC.

                      And my opinion is not slanted by the fact that I'm a Marvel guy, you'll notice that I've had a general positive attitude towards OYL in a few posts.

                      Unlike IC, 'Watchmen' doesn't constantly reference past events or expect people to know previous events to lend weight to new story beats. Hell, I don't even know which characters the 'Watchmen' are supposed to be based off of.

                      In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

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                      • If it make you anyone of Feel better..I get IC and I love it....

                        Yeah..It WOULD help..but you dont NEED the knowledge to enjoy it...yeah..some parts are going to seem what the fuck, Superman 2, anti monitor Superboy prime..but then here is the saving grace about comics..

                        You can re read them...

                        yep...once you get teh knowledge you so need go back and give it a try again and you will enjoy what me, Sev and Alley have been enjoying these past few months..

                        and if not....Civil war is around the corner in a month or two and thats pretty straight foward, Nitro blows up kids, Marvel Universe split into two, spider man gets shitty costume and becoems Stark's bitch...you know straight foward..

                        As far as OYL and 52 goes...im still not sold on it...I will get a few of the 1 year laters books to See(got aquaman, didnt get others...) but Iwill pick up Teen titans, and Nightwing plus the batman one coming out later...ther others are not that important to me anymore(Birds of prey, and Green arrow, manhunter....)...But i do want to see the showdown between arrow and deathstroke though....

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                        • Originally posted by Porn N Gore
                          If it make you anyone of Feel better..I get IC and I love it....

                          Yeah..It WOULD help..but you dont NEED the knowledge to enjoy it...yeah..some parts are going to seem what the fuck, Superman 2, anti monitor Superboy prime..but then here is the saving grace about comics..

                          You can re read them...

                          yep...once you get teh knowledge you so need go back and give it a try again and you will enjoy what me, Sev and Alley have been enjoying these past few months..

                          and if not....Civil war is around the corner in a month or two and thats pretty straight foward, Nitro blows up kids, Marvel Universe split into two, spider man gets shitty costume and becoems Stark's bitch...you know straight foward..

                          As far as OYL and 52 goes...im still not sold on it...I will get a few of the 1 year laters books to See(got aquaman, didnt get others...) but Iwill pick up Teen titans, and Nightwing plus the batman one coming out later...ther others are not that important to me anymore(Birds of prey, and Green arrow, manhunter....)...But i do want to see the showdown between arrow and deathstroke though....
                          Meh, I think they could do a better job on the setup, but to each his own. Its kinda like watching the third part in a trilogy of movies you've never seen -- you get it, but you don't care as much.

                          And Morrison + Kubert + Batman = gold.

                          Did anyone else read the 3 or so issues of Aquaman before the OYL relaunch? They almost made him a kickass character before the roboot. I know Busiek is going for more of a fantasy perspective, but I've always loved the idea of Atlantean technology -- kinda like Star Wars under water.

                          In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, There is Only War.

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                          • yeah..i think im the only one on the board who did read aqua man...

                            Tempest was conducting a magic ceremony when the spectre turned his wraith on altantis totally destorying it while Aquaman Killed manta in a school of sharks....then aquman finds that spectre i think killed tempest and then goes to pout for awhile...puts his other glove back on and tells everyone he is moving to sub diego cause altantis is a graveyard and there is nothing to build there...

                            I think that the keeper squid face guy and the young guy are the old Aquaman split into two....or that squid guy is aquaman but doesnt remember cause of IC..

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                            • I tried to get into Aquaman before OYL, but I never got around to it. I really wanted to like the first issue of Busiek's run...but the only thought I had was "apparently one year later is designed to bring in new readers, and confuse the fuck out of them"...I've pretty much determined that much like Superman and Wonder Woman, I like Aquaman in the context of the JLA...and that's about it.
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                              • Originally posted by Straker
                                Seems pretty personal to me. :confused:

                                It's just not a great series for new readers, you can even tell that by some of the posts on this very thread. It's not that I'm hating the story, but that it definately suffers because of this. Then again, it's just another comic in my pile and I'm not rushing to the store in anticipation for each cliffhanger like I am for 'The Ultimates' -- and that ships bi-monthly at best. Even you have to admit that a lot of what's in IC is a nod to old readers. I never said that it was incomprehensible or god awful, just not a very good suggestion to someone new to comics or DC.

                                And my opinion is not slanted by the fact that I'm a Marvel guy, you'll notice that I've had a general positive attitude towards OYL in a few posts.

                                Unlike IC, 'Watchmen' doesn't constantly reference past events or expect people to know previous events to lend weight to new story beats. Hell, I don't even know which characters the 'Watchmen' are supposed to be based off of.
                                It really wasn't personal...at least it wasn't meant to be. If it came off that way, I apologize. I was basically trying to say what PnG said, but frustration won out over patience. Also, the Watchmen reference didn't just apply to this. I honestly can't remember the context in which I read it, but I felt like it applied. They give you enough information and history of the characters for you to understand the story, which I feel like they're doing in IC.
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