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The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

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  • Originally posted by Sea Hag View Post
    But it is due to a myriad of very valid reasons pointed out already. To give the thing a 10/10 or call it the best film of the year is an example of incredibly low standards.
    Name me one of your favorite films and I'll give you valid plot holes in the movie, and after I name them, tell me you still like it, and I'll say you have incredibly low standards.

    The scale of this film is just mindblowing for a superhero film. I mean, it's hard to think back to 2005 and recall how risky Batman Begins seemed at the time, and how little fanfare it received upon its release. Especially when you look at the final entry in the trilogy and see how numerous cities bent over backwards to accommodate the shooting. The action sequences are simply incredible, and it's easy to see that Nolan drew his inspiration from the "Cast of Thousands" days of the great silent epics. Extras = scale, and it's almost inconceivable, when you look at the fight on Wall Street, that not one of those people is a CG insert. That they actually did this all for real. But they did, and that's just brilliant. The stage on which this film plays out is simply massive.

    And yet, it's also startlingly intimate. Seeing Bruce grow into himself in this film is quite a thing to behold, and there's nothing else quite like it in the whole of the Batman universe. Watching him escape from the pit, recalling how his father saved him from the well as a child...now he's saving himself. It's a transcendent moment where Bruce, in a very real and meaningful sense, becomes his own man. This film actually allows Bruce Wayne to move beyond his pain and his anger...to realize that he doesn't have to be a martyr to be a hero...to actually be able to say that what he's done is enough to honor the memory of his fallen parents. That Gotham City needn't be PERFECT in order for him to have a real life. And there's a difference between simply ceasing to be Batman, and having this realization. Bruce stopped being Batman after the events of TDK...but he didn't stop NEEDING Batman, even after Gotham City seemingly did. By the end of TDKR, he no longer needs Batman. He no longer needs all of that pain, guilt, and anger. He's outgrown it. He's transcended it.

    The film's not perfect...but it doesn't have to be. As an end to Bruce Wayne's journey, and a fulfillment of the themes and promises of its predecessors, it's quite beautiful.
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    • That's all well and good, but you're willing to overlook the holes. Whereas some of us are not. I like the film. On the technical side, it's top-notch. It's the story that starts to crumble. I don't want to re-list everything that has been mentioned, but the list of holes is quite extensive. Sure you can nitpick any film, but they shouldn't bug you after the film is long over.

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      • Originally posted by Sea Hag View Post
        But it is due to a myriad of very valid reasons pointed out already. To give the thing a 10/10 or call it the best film of the year is an example of incredibly low standards.
        Dude it's called a matter of opinion. You didn't like it? cool but stop acting like a dick to everyone who does.
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        • Originally posted by Shape View Post
          Name me one of your favorite films and I'll give you valid plot holes in the movie, and after I name them, tell me you still like it, and I'll say you have incredibly low standards.

          The scale of this film is just mindblowing for a superhero film. I mean, it's hard to think back to 2005 and recall how risky Batman Begins seemed at the time, and how little fanfare it received upon its release. Especially when you look at the final entry in the trilogy and see how numerous cities bent over backwards to accommodate the shooting. The action sequences are simply incredible, and it's easy to see that Nolan drew his inspiration from the "Cast of Thousands" days of the great silent epics. Extras = scale, and it's almost inconceivable, when you look at the fight on Wall Street, that not one of those people is a CG insert. That they actually did this all for real. But they did, and that's just brilliant. The stage on which this film plays out is simply massive.

          And yet, it's also startlingly intimate. Seeing Bruce grow into himself in this film is quite a thing to behold, and there's nothing else quite like it in the whole of the Batman universe. Watching him escape from the pit, recalling how his father saved him from the well as a child...now he's saving himself. It's a transcendent moment where Bruce, in a very real and meaningful sense, becomes his own man. This film actually allows Bruce Wayne to move beyond his pain and his anger...to realize that he doesn't have to be a martyr to be a hero...to actually be able to say that what he's done is enough to honor the memory of his fallen parents. That Gotham City needn't be PERFECT in order for him to have a real life. And there's a difference between simply ceasing to be Batman, and having this realization. Bruce stopped being Batman after the events of TDK...but he didn't stop NEEDING Batman, even after Gotham City seemingly did. By the end of TDKR, he no longer needs Batman. He no longer needs all of that pain, guilt, and anger. He's outgrown it. He's transcended it.

          The film's not perfect...but it doesn't have to be. As an end to Bruce Wayne's journey, and a fulfillment of the themes and promises of its predecessors, it's quite beautiful.
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          You can find plot holes in any movie. It's not that uncommon. But you when you have a trilogy, and loose ends and plot holes come into effect it can ruin a series. I loved the movie, but it isn't even close to a movie of the year nod or a perfect score. If you were rating the film solely based off of the visuals it would be perfect, but the story is not, and that's a problem. Not a major problem, but still a problem. Especially that this is the final movie in the trilogy. It needs to fill the loose plot holes, which contrary to some "do exist." Like you stated, the film does not need to be perfect, but it needed to address certain issues involving the story which were left out.

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          • The main issue comes from the fact that this is a Chris Nolan film.

            If it were directed by PW Anderson or some other B grade director I'd bet most people wouldn't even take the plot holes and into consideration, because you expect flaws from hacks, but Nolan is a perfectionist. You expect a director of his caliber to go over every detail with a fine tooth comb. He has a perfect track record because of how meticulous he is, but here he dropped the ball hard and people weren't expecting it.

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            • Well, I gave it another chance.

              Much, MUCH better than the first viewing. The plot really comes together.

              That being said, I think my old man summed up the problems pretty good. He's no film aficionado, but his words ring true. And I quote.....

              "Batman is kind of a pussy in this moive, isn't he?"

              Yup.
              Last edited by Heretic; 12-08-2012, 06:47 PM.


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              • I always thought plot holes were such a cheap way to shit on a film. I tend to look at more of the bigger picture, and it's not because I have low standards. I have a willingness to look over all the petty things that other people frivolously babble about. It just seems like people rage about these films just for the sake of raging.
                I thought it was excellent, much better than I thought it would be since I'm not a huge TDK fan.

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                • Originally posted by Edo View Post
                  I always thought plot holes were such a cheap way to shit on a film. I tend to look at more of the bigger picture, and it's not because I have low standards. I have a willingness to look over all the petty things that other people frivolously babble about. It just seems like people rage about these films just for the sake of raging.
                  I thought it was excellent, much better than I thought it would be since I'm not a huge TDK fan.
                  For people who aren't as into this series (like yourself) as others, it's probably much easier to forgive or look over some missing pieces of the story. Just as it is with many other things, but die-hard fans and strong followers of the series, want and deserve closure on some things. Yes, it was a fantastic film, but it still left much to be desired by fans of the series.

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                  • Originally posted by Klown View Post
                    That's all well and good, but you're willing to overlook the holes. Whereas some of us are not. I like the film. On the technical side, it's top-notch. It's the story that starts to crumble. I don't want to re-list everything that has been mentioned, but the list of holes is quite extensive. Sure you can nitpick any film, but they shouldn't bug you after the film is long over.
                    I'm not willing to overlook the holes...however, I am willing to look past the small things like, "how did Bruce get back to Gotham from the prison?", because there's a simple answer; he's Batman.

                    Sometimes I think some people nit-pick like that because they WANT to find mistakes. But after awhile those mistakes don't matter anymore. It happened like that with TDK; people have learned to look past the plot-holes and enjoy the movie for what it is. I don't dwell on the little things, that would ruin every movie for me. If I wanted something more real I wouldn't be watching science fiction. haha

                    Originally posted by bloodydollface View Post
                    but die-hard fans and strong followers of the series, want and deserve closure on some things. Yes, it was a fantastic film, but it still left much to be desired by fans of the series.
                    It's apparent you're not looking for closure from the whole series but from the movies individually. I'm as big a Batman fan you'll find, but I still don't destroy the movie by noticing the little problems that weren't answered. The trilogy as a whole is quite perfect, but if you're looking at the movies individually you'll find the same unanswered questions in ALL of them.
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                    • Originally posted by MovieGeek View Post
                      How the hell did they act like the second film never happened? Did you actually watch the movie?

                      Just because The Joker isn't mentioned doesn't mean the second film was ignored.

                      You're just bitching for the sake of bitching now.
                      Chill out... I'm aware that this film mentions the the 2nd film and obviously cannot take place without any of that film's events. I was referring to the Joker character not being referenced, I thought it was a cop-out, but it wasn't something that actively took my pleasure away from the movie until well after I first saw this one. Just thought it should have been made much more apparent since it was a turning point in Gotham's history. Why does everybody have to get so hostile so easily around here lately?

                      Everybody is acting like I hated this movie. As has been stated 2093740238402384 times now, the film is a technical marvel and stands as a culmination of Nolan's efforts as a filmmaker. I have major issues with the plot, however. No need to say what has already been said.

                      edit

                      I'm gonna watch this one more time. I like a lot of what I've read in this board and I'm gonna watch it with some new things in mind.
                      Last edited by The Revelator; 12-08-2012, 11:22 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Sea Hag View Post
                        Because there was a small scene explaining that the auto-pilot was working.
                        Totally overlooked it. I am not sure that this is the only "excuse" for the scene in the cafe.

                        Originally posted by Sea Hag View Post
                        It's just not a good film bro
                        Maybe not as a whole, but within the trilogy it fits as an ending piece quite well. And one thing is for sure: it is a damn good action movie of epic proportions and has a very good score as well (which is strange because it is a Zimmer one). Not to mention the gorgeous IMAX sequences.

                        Originally posted by Klown View Post
                        That's all well and good, but you're willing to overlook the holes. Whereas some of us are not. I like the film. On the technical side, it's top-notch. It's the story that starts to crumble. I don't want to re-list everything that has been mentioned, but the list of holes is quite extensive. Sure you can nitpick any film, but they shouldn't bug you after the film is long over.
                        They didn't bug me in the first place, because of the epic proportions of the visuals and the overall positive impression of the fact, that everything and everybody has come to peace. Sure, there are imo too many glorification moments towards the end plus some inevitable tearjerkers, but I guess they were needed for a flick of such proportions. I don't like 'em at all, but those things can be overlooked due to the already mentioned other qualitites of the movie.

                        Originally posted by bloodydollface View Post
                        You can find plot holes in any movie. It's not that uncommon. But you when you have a trilogy, and loose ends and plot holes come into effect it can ruin a series. I loved the movie, but it isn't even close to a movie of the year nod or a perfect score. If you were rating the film solely based off of the visuals it would be perfect, but the story is not, and that's a problem. Not a major problem, but still a problem. Especially that this is the final movie in the trilogy. It needs to fill the loose plot holes, which contrary to some "do exist." Like you stated, the film does not need to be perfect, but it needed to address certain issues involving the story which were left out.
                        All of this, well written!

                        Originally posted by Edo View Post
                        I always thought plot holes were such a cheap way to shit on a film. I tend to look at more of the bigger picture, and it's not because I have low standards. I have a willingness to look over all the petty things that other people frivolously babble about. It just seems like people rage about these films just for the sake of raging.
                        I thought it was excellent, much better than I thought it would be since I'm not a huge TDK fan.
                        I agree with the plothole thing, but like rusted already said, it was directed by Nolan, not a B grade director from Italy or so. You wouldn't expect such mistakes from him at all. I only can assume, that he wanted to maintain a comicbook-like character and vibe for TDKR. That would be the only excuse...

                        Originally posted by Shape View Post
                        I'm not willing to overlook the holes...however, I am willing to look past the small things like, "how did Bruce get back to Gotham from the prison?", because there's a simple answer; he's Batman.
                        Yes, he is.
                        Another thing: everybody is talking about his broken spine after his fight with Bane. Would it have been really broken and damaged for good, he didn't have had the opportunity at all to walk again, because being permamently disabled and crippled. Spine cut = disabled.
                        But he is Batman.

                        Originally posted by Shape View Post
                        I don't dwell on the little things, that would ruin every movie for me. If I wanted something more real I wouldn't be watching science fiction. haha
                        Talking about plot-holes and unanswered questions...there is another film called Prometheus, which had similar issues, but the outcry wasn't by far as devastating like the one from TDKR. Ridley Scott is a perfectionist as well, but he managed to built in some odd things in his latest movie as well. Kinda strange, isn't it?

                        Originally posted by Shape View Post
                        It's apparent you're not looking for closure from the whole series but from the movies individually. I'm as big a Batman fan you'll find, but I still don't destroy the movie by noticing the little problems that weren't answered. The trilogy as a whole is quite perfect, but if you're looking at the movies individually you'll find the same unanswered questions in ALL of them.
                        Troof too. I you want to destroy any kind of movie, you will succeed.
                        Last edited by Santa; 12-09-2012, 05:20 AM.
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                        • Originally posted by bloodydollface View Post
                          For people who aren't as into this series (like yourself) as others, it's probably much easier to forgive or look over some missing pieces of the story. Just as it is with many other things, but die-hard fans and strong followers of the series, want and deserve closure on some things. Yes, it was a fantastic film, but it still left much to be desired by fans of the series.
                          Not for this fan lol. I thought it was a great ending to a great trilogy.

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                          • Originally posted by Justin_Voorhees View Post
                            Not for this fan lol. I thought it was a great ending to a great trilogy.
                            Let me rephrase that, "most fans." It was a good ending, not arguing that, but there's still things left to be desired in the movie. I watched the movie again last night and this 3rd viewing did help clarify some things for me, but also noticed other things. One of them was Miranda Tate's death. It seemed kind of awkward and out of place in the movie, especially for her character. Her death didn't really seem "believable" to me. I would have liked to see a different ending for her character.

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                            • Originally posted by bloodydollface View Post
                              Let me rephrase that, "most fans." It was a good ending, not arguing that, but there's still things left to be desired in the movie. I watched the movie again last night and this 3rd viewing did help clarify some things for me, but also noticed other things. One of them was Miranda Tate's death. It seemed kind of awkward and out of place in the movie, especially for her character. Her death didn't really seem "believable" to me. I would have liked to see a different ending for her character.
                              Her death scene was pretty bad.

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                              • Gave it a rewatch today and just like the first time, it was fun to watch at. My home theatre system was pushed to its limits and the screen exploded with great eyeycandies. It really felt like that the comic book-feeling was purposed and incorporated intentionally, at least at those scenes, which were under heavy fire here. It worked better than in theater a half year ago and I got even accostumed to Gordon-Levitts performance and meaning in this film. Plus, the last scene in the french cafe was also coherent now, knowing, that Bruce [SPOILER]applied a patch to the auto pilot function within his pod[/SPOILER] prior to his abscence in the prison.
                                I would rate it 7 up to 8 now.
                                No major problem with it, except for the schmaltz at the end (funeral, statue and shit).

                                Originally posted by bloodydollface View Post
                                Let me rephrase that, "most fans." It was a good ending, not arguing that, but there's still things left to be desired in the movie. I watched the movie again last night and this 3rd viewing did help clarify some things for me, but also noticed other things. One of them was Miranda Tate's death. It seemed kind of awkward and out of place in the movie, especially for her character. Her death didn't really seem "believable" to me. I would have liked to see a different ending for her character.
                                Originally posted by Justin_Voorhees View Post
                                Her death scene was pretty bad.
                                Her death scene was the worst in recent movie history. She mumbles last sentences and then all of the sudden shuts her eyes -> dead!
                                Horrible and amateurish.
                                "I want this place to go nuts, north, south, east, west, left, right! Activate this dance floor!!"
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