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Old 12-05-2012, 10:13 PM   #2711
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Originally Posted by rusted31 View Post
When they first show that scene there are three guys on the ice and one falls through. Later, when Gordon is on the ice there's at least a dozen of people, plus Batman and not one crack ?
Is it impossible for the weather to have gotten colder therefore making the ice thicker?

Looking for stupid mistakes as that is definitely a good way to ruin movies for yourself.

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This film is filled with silly moments. If a hack directed it I'd probably look past the flaws but from Nolan there's no excuse.
You see the same kind of mistakes from comics. And I think Nolan's films did a good job of making you feel like you were watching a comic book. That's what I love about all these movies.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:37 PM   #2712
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I copied this from IMDB but it explains things perfectly:

It was never stated where the prison was. So we have no idea how long it takes to get there. When Alfred mentions it to Bruce early on, he says in an "some more ancient part of the world." (The fort is in Jodhpur, India). It is also revealed that Miranda/Talia has a plane, when she says to Bruce: "We could leave. Tonight. Take my plane. Go anywhere we wanted." When Bane seized the reactor, it was mentioned that they had about 5 months before it blew up. That gives Bruce enough time for a return trip from anywhere in the world. Gotham wasn't technically quarantined, as food shipments were allowed in. Citizens just weren't allowed out. That's how the Special Forces team managed to get into the city. Not to mention, Bruce was able to travel around the world living among the criminal underworld for 7 years when he ran away from Gotham. Therefore he clearly has the knowledge and capability to survive without his fortunes. The mythos of the Bane character tells us that the prison that Bane escaped is located on fictional island republic called Santa Prisca in the Caribbean Sea, which would have made for a very short flight for Bane and Bruce, though it's never specified in the movie.

One possible theory is that he can walk on ice with 'sure-footing' as shown in his training with Ra's al Ghul in the first film, Batman Begins . This is actually confirmed visually when Batman meets Gordon halfway along the ice, walking effortlessly towards him. Another idea is that as Wayne Manor is said to be located outside the city limits (and perhaps off the main island of Gotham), he could have gone back to his home and taken the Bat and flown to the bridge or just beyond it. The last time wee see the Bat landing is inside the Batcave as Batman returns after dropping off Selina Kyle. This last theory is supported by the notion that Wayne Manor is not shown to have been looted and occupied by the Blackgate Prison escapees. It is also shown in a Map of Gotham city produced as part of the viral marketing, similarly to other known maps of Gotham from comics, that Wayne Manor is outside of the main set of islands that were under Bane's martial law. The film itself establishes direct explanation for getting onto the island, with the CIA agents sneaking into Gotham undercover as men delivering supplies. This may not have been the route Wayne took to get back, but it proves that other people were also successfully sneaking into the city during Occupied Gotham. In the end a guy like Bruce Wayne, while living a double life as Batman for a few years, probably learned of several or many different ways to gain access to a city that could be so easily cut off from the outside world, i.e., as Batman, he'd have to know alternate routes and access points to track criminals and find their hideouts, etc.
I feel like fans have to make excuses for lazy screenwriting. That's what those two giant paragraphs are: excuses.

It doesn't make sense he magically re-entered Gotham. It just doesn't. The whole ice thing is silly as well, even with point by point explanations. Nolan isn't usually one to keep these trivial details out, and he failed to cover all parts in this film.

edit

I'm usually a fan of ambiguity in films, I love having to think for myself. However, it doesn't work in these movies at these moments. It isn't a big open ending part of the film, its a simple Point A to Point B scene that doesn't make sense. Like I said, Nolan usually is better at filling in the important blanks.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #2713
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I feel like fans have to make excuses for lazy screenwriting. That's what those two giant paragraphs are: excuses.

It doesn't make sense he magically re-entered Gotham. It just doesn't. The whole ice thing is silly as well, even with point by point explanations. Nolan isn't usually one to keep these trivial details out, and he failed to cover all parts in this film.

edit

I'm usually a fan of ambiguity in films, I love having to think for myself. However, it doesn't work in these movies at these moments. It isn't a big open ending part of the film, its a simple Point A to Point B scene that doesn't make sense. Like I said, Nolan usually is better at filling in the important blanks.

Totally agree. I get that the fans of the film will defend the movie anyway they can, but the ice and him getting back into Gotham are two massive plot holes.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:04 PM   #2714
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I feel like fans have to make excuses for lazy screenwriting. That's what those two giant paragraphs are: excuses.
They're more like explanations...made for the haters who will try and find problems and flaws with this movie any way they can. *cough*

If I actually looked for flaws in movies I'd wind up disliking 90% of the movies I watch.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:14 PM   #2715
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They're more like explanations...made for the haters who will try and find problems and flaws with this movie any way they can. *cough*

If I actually looked for flaws in movies I'd wind up disliking 90% of the movies I watch.
I wanted to like this movie... I wasn't ardently searching for flaws so I could dislike it. They stuck out and unfortunately made me care for the film less. The flaws exist, I'm not trying my hardest to see them. I want to watch this movie again and again until the flaws I found in it no longer seem like flaws. I don't see that happening, the problems with this movie are much more obvious than other films of such and epic caliber.

Believe me, I was super jacked about this film, I'm a huge fan of the first two. I still like this one a lot, but it's not nearly as concise or well-constructed. Don't tell me I'm hating this movie on purpose, I'm upset that it isn't as good as it could have been.

edit

and yes, they're explanations. Explanations that use subjective and circumstantial facts. Anybody could explain these plotholes using their imagination if they look at the products as a whole, unfortunately I expect more from Nolan. Like I previously said, he normally doesn't allow such flaws to slip by.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:01 AM   #2716
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You guys are over-analyzing this movie. Im sure Nolan was smart enough to realize what he was doing. It basicly comes down to this, its a movie. Get oer it. If you have issues with it then either dont watch it or just ignore them.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:15 AM   #2717
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You see the same kind of mistakes from comics. And I think Nolan's films did a good job of making you feel like you were watching a comic book. That's what I love about all these movies.
I do agree with that, actually it is a good explanation for many flaws or plotholes in this movie. I would love to hear it from Nolan himself, whether that is the reason behind all the "mistakes". But I don't think that he really intended it being comic-bookish.

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Totally agree. I get that the fans of the film will defend the movie anyway they can, but the ice and him getting back into Gotham are two massive plot holes.
If you are referring to Batmans return into Gotham...well, the (or a) Hero always finds a way to get to his target. Don't you know that?
Srsly, I think there are a lot of hidden entries one man can slip through, especially at such a vast border area. But theses are nitpicking trivias. What matters most is the fact, whether the movie works as a whole, a unit or not. Surely, the harmony like in TDK isn't present, but Nolan still managed to capture the character of an event of epic proportions. Score, cinematography, editing...all top notch factors and great to watch at on Blu-ray or just for the sake of big fat action cinema.

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Anybody could explain these plotholes using their imagination if they look at the products as a whole, unfortunately I expect more from Nolan. Like I previously said, he normally doesn't allow such flaws to slip by.
Possible explanation is to maintain a comic book-like character, just like Shape assumed. This would excuse the many dissonances.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:38 AM   #2718
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You guys are over-analyzing this movie. Im sure Nolan was smart enough to realize what he was doing. It basicly comes down to this, its a movie. Get oer it. If you have issues with it then either dont watch it or just ignore them.
ugh

You guys win, this is a nearly perfect movie.

11/10
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:03 AM   #2719
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Most any movie is going to have it's flaws if you think long and hard enough. Some movies are even dependent on stupid choices for events to take place. Horror movies seem rife with this, but I love a good movie where characters make logical choices that go bad due to a lack of info.

Any movie can be picked apart after you're done watching it, that's prolly standard, but a movie's narrative shouldn't be so... disjointed that you're left going WTH the instant the event takes place on screen.

It's not unusual that a deleted scene holds the reason for a later choice, but a lot of that will still hurt a movie.

Nor should a movie require a ton of previous knowledge. Not that a movie should be dumbed down, but if you wind up with too little reasoning in the movie, it's gonna suffer, as this movie seems to have done.

Still, that doesn't mean the overall result will be unenjoyable.

Haven't seen this yet myself, hope to rent it soon.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:32 AM   #2720
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Put it this way. With BB and TDK, I can count on one hand how many "iffy" moments are in them. With TDKR, I would lose count. Sure, you could pick apart BB and TDK if you really tried, but with TDKR, you wouldn't have to try. It would be effortless.

I'm not saying it's a bad movie(and I'm still hoping it will get better the more I watch it), but I don't know how anyone(especially fans of the franchise), can ignore the vast amount of problems and inconsistancies with this one, compared to the previous two.

If Nolan came out and said "This is going to be way different, and have more of an anything goes, over the top comicbook feel to it. Logic is thrown out the window", I would look at TDKR in a different light. He didn't though, so I can only conclude that Nolan kind of dropped the ball with this one. He got a bit lazy in the writing process, and cared a lot less about connecting all the dots.
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