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“Hannibal” Was Cancelled Partly Due to Online Piracy

Hannibal, NBC

NBC’s “Hannibal” was basically a gift from above for horror fans. It had everything we could’ve wanted from such an offering. It was brilliantly acted, featured a rich and intricate storyline, had terrifying music, and some of the most gorgeous yet utterly horrifying bursts of gore and death. It treated the genre with a respect that is rarely seen and even more rarely cultivated. Unfortunately, while “Hannibal” gave us a glimpse of something pure and wonderful, its lifespan was cut short after a mere three seasons, well before the series was set to enter the realm of Clarice Starling and her journey that was originally seen in The Silence of the Lambs, an arc that has a great deal of personal meaning to many lovers of author Thomas Harris’ works.

The question still remains: Why? How could a show that gave us everything we theoretically wanted ultimately fare so poorly? Was it the timeslot? I don’t think so, as NBC made the episodes available to watch the day after it aired. Was it that it was too highbrow? I won’t lie and tell you I understood everything when first presented. Often times I had to rewatch episodes to fully grasp what was going on and to understand the subtleties at play. However, with a show that entertaining and exhilarating, I find myself not really buying that it was “too much”. Could it have been the gore and intense visuals? For horror fans, absolutely not. For the general public, maybe?

But another angle comes from show executive producer Martha De Laurentiis herself, who has penned an op ed on The Hill that tackles “Hannibal” and its cancellation, citing online piracy as one of the main culprits:

When NBC decided not to renew “Hannibal” for a fourth season — a show on which I served as executive producer — it wasn’t much of a leap to connect its fate with the fact that the show was ranked as the fifth-most illegally downloaded show in 2013. When nearly one-third of the audience for “Hannibal” is coming from pirated sites — despite the fact that a legitimate download for each episode was available the following day — you don’t have to know calculus to do the math. If a show is stolen, it makes it difficult, if not impossible, to fairly compensate a crew and keep a series in production.

De Laurentiis also writes something incredibly important, something that many people often overlook:

Only so many names can fit onto a marquee, film poster, TV show’s credits or in a movie’s trailer. Maybe the millions of people who illegally download movies and TV shows are thinking only of the top-billed stars, excusing their actions with the notion that one viewing will not do much harm to a superstar.

But on a set, every last crew member and creative — right down to the person who designed that poster or edited that trailer — is affected if the fruits of their labor are stolen.

Did pirates kill “Hannibal”? Unfortunately, that is a cliffhanger that might last for a while. With more than 2 million viewers watching our show illegally, it’s hard not to think online pirates were, at the very least, partly responsible for hundreds of crew members losing their jobs and millions of fans — who watched the show legitimately — mourning the loss of a beloved program.

She ends with a solemn promise, one that she will be tackling when she appears at the Meet the Producers event, which takes place on Capitol Hill:

As I said, this isn’t just about me. This is about the livelihoods of thousands upon thousands of hardworking people who help enrich the lives of millions of fans of films and TV shows. When the plundering is done, even the pirates will have nothing left to watch, let alone steal. That is a dark future I will do my best — as a producer and a fan — to make sure never arrives at a laptop near you.

I know that torrenting and online streaming are topics of hot debate here, so I ask you all to weigh in with your thoughts below. As always, I hope things are kept civil as a rational and logical discourse is what is needed to truly decide where to take this situation.



AROUND THE WEB


COMMENTS

375 Comments
  • Creepshow

    But unfortunately Jonathan, thieves are not rational and logical.

  • Josh Evans

    I call utter bull. Using this logic Game of Thrones would have been cancelled a LONG time ago.

    • RidleyScott

      I’m putting you on the news.

      • Josh Evans

        What does that even mean? XD

        • RidleyScott

          That I’m putting you on the news. All of it.

          • Josh Evans

            Great story man.

          • RidleyScott

            Great story, great story

          • wehoaks

            I just saw him on the news!

  • BloodyDisgusted

    Go back and look at the article on Eli Roth’s Clown, people were proudly admitting to pirating it and some even tried to justify their actions. I can’t wait to see where this comment section goes. I wouldn’t expect a civil, rational and logical conversation.

    • I saw and I approved a vast majority of the comments on that article. As much as I hated HOW the discussion was happening, I was happy that it WAS happening.

    • alwayswipetwice

      You shouldn’t expect a civil or rational conversation when some people would rather name-call than try to educate people about the multifaceted issue of piracy. I always was in the mindset that piracy is only wrong because it results in cancellations and job loss. But what about the highest grossing franchise films whos existence is hardly threatened by piracy? I’m assuming the answer to that is the little people are the ones who are suffering by diminishing residuals.

      There’s a serious disconnect between movie-goers and the movie industry, and anti-piracy statements given by multimillionaire execs isn’t helping to change peoples’ minds. The little people who slave over making movies need to be the ones leading the anti-piracy campaigns because they’re the “everyman/everywoman” people should relate to.

  • techstar25

    Sometimes ratings are low. It is what it is. I looked at the ratings of the episodes and you can see a steady rise from S1 to S2 but then a steady decline through S3. The fact that it was available on HULU makes it even less likely that piracy was the real culprit. But this is not about piracy. It’s about a producer who won’t take responsibility for the declining “quality” of her show. And even if you argue that the show didn’t really decline in quality (which is what Jonathan is saying), clearly they just couldn’t attract the audience they needed.

    • concerned citizen

      Series 3 got pretty messy. It felt like it was floundering a little to me.

      • J Jett

        concerned citizen, you are ABSOLUTELY spot on. season 3 (much/most of it) was a total mess. i am not surprised ratings dropped so severely.

  • Uter

    This after I defended the pirates. But if you look at the discussion about Clown, it was never about defending piracy but illustrating that it does have value.

    As for Hannibal, to blame its cancellation solely on piracy, this long after the fact especially, seems to suggest some sort of agenda. I LOVE Hannibal. I think it’s easily the best Hannibal-related work to come along ever (that includes SOTL) and I fully support(ed) it. However, as it was up for renewal, the story was low ratings along with the absurdity of a show like Hannibal existing on NBC. It never fit there and was far and away the best thing on the network. Suddenly the narrative changes over half a year later?

    I didn’t even know it was good until after the first season ended because I had no idea something that amazing could come out of NBC. That’s why I missed every premier. The reason people pirated it so much is because it was impossible to catch the one airing, during a shifting time-slot, of each episode on a channel that no one under 50 turns to. Also, I’m NOT defending pirating but I will say that when networks offer a clunky streaming service, people get annoyed and leave the site when they know there’s an option available that doesn’t involve nearly as much grief.

    • Richter Belmont

      Never mind the fact that these network streaming services are ‘unavailable to consumers outside of the USA’.

      • Chris Mosher

        Not entirely true . I can only speak for Canada but i was able to watch it on City TV ‘s website the next day. City also allows their programs to be viewed for longer periods of time then other Canadian networks.

    • wehoaks

      “The reason people pirated it so much is because it was impossible to catch the one airing, during a shifting time-slot, of each episode on a channel that offers no similar content.”

      BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH the cutest justification today!

  • Richter Belmont

    Piracy may be theft but I cannot and will not side with a multi-billion dollar industry that are willing to sue kids for hundreds of thousands of dollars for illegal downloads.

    • I don’t condone the amount of money they sue for BUT think of all the people that are affected by illegal downloads. Just think of the credit roll for any movie and realize that all those people worked on the movie and each have someone to support, even if it’s just themselves. Think of all those names and realize just how quickly that money adds up.

      • Richter Belmont

        It still does not justify ruining kid’s lives. Imagine if grocery stores started suing children for stealing a candy bar for the crazy amounts that these studios are suing for. I doubt many people would stand for it.

        There needs to be a cap in place, especially for children and teenagers, for the amount that studios are allowed to sue.

        • I don’t argue that there should be a cap but I also feel like people think these numbers are just arbitrary. A punishment should reflect the crime, which I don’t think the current numbers do. But the numbers are greater than what people think it should be.

        • BloodyDisgusted

          The people who face legal action are egregious repeat offenders. They’ve been warned multiple times if they continue what they’re doing there would be consequences. If that doesn’t wake someone up and make them realize what they’re doing is wrong, than throw the book at them, they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent.

          • Uter

            That simply isn’t true. People who have shared a couple of songs have been sued for hundreds of thousands. There is hypocrisy on both sides of the argument.

          • BloodyDisgusted

            I’ve never heard of someone being sued for downloading ‘a couple’ of songs or movies. I’ve never felt bad for anyone caught either, crime doesn’t pay. You wouldn’t download a car would you?

          • Uter

            It’s possible those reports showing people being sued, when this topic was the rage, were fabricated. I don’t actually know anyone personally who was sued. But the car argument is an example of false equivalence.

        • Lirabelle

          Or they could just not steal the candy bars.

      • alwayswipetwice

        I never thought about it until recently. There’s a disconnect between the effects of piracy (specifically on big budget franchises) because their existence isn’t threatened by piracy. When execs talk about the highest grossing film of the year that was also the most pirated, it just seems like they’re looking out for their own interests because, well… when have they ever showed compassion for anyone other than themselves? – especially the little people who’re slaving to make them rich in the first place. You’d think it would be a priority to make their voices heard.

        The anti-piracy effort has been a joke. We get those ridiculous, preachy ads before movies, hear from multimillionaire execs in the news, and get treated like low-life scum by people on here. So where is the serious effort to speak to pirates and the effort to reform their ways? Imo, a successful anti-piracy campaign needs to be a grassroots one, which is voiced by the little people in Hollywood.

    • wehoaks

      Piracy IS theft.

  • Uter

    As RIchter Belmont pointed out, I’d also like to know what percentage of people pirating come from countries which have no other legal option. Also, how many of the people pirating watched the episode as it aired and then pirated it? I’m only trying to point out how skewed the numbers might be. Also, two million viewers? That’s it? Two million viewers would not have saved Hannibal.

    • MTV’s ‘Scream’ averaged less than a million viewers for each episode and was renewed. And if we look at Law and Order: SVU, which is one of NBC’s biggest shows, it averages well over six million per episode.

      De Laurentiis stated that nearly a third of Hannibal’s audience were illegally torrenting/pirating the show. If two million is the number she gave, that means the show could’ve had six million viewing when it aired.

      As for international numbers, I can’t help with that. I don’t have that information, although it does lend an interesting twist to the debate. I know that borders make things very, very tricky as each country has its own regulations on what can be aired or shown on TV (which I’m assuming includes online streaming).

      • Uter

        But Scream is not on a major network. So those numbers are better for MTV than they would be for NBC. Looking at the numbers on Wikipedia, Hannibal only would have hit six million, theoretically, in its first season. Then ratings declined. Also, if we’re to use this hypothetical “what if no one pirated” scenario, then viewers would go up on EVERY show, resulting in a ratio that in most cases would be nearly identical to what it is now.

    • wehoaks

      In the US Hankibak averaged about 3 million viewers. Two million is a lot.

      Thieves always be excusing themselves.

      • Uter

        Not enough to save it on NBC. The average never hit three million. Criticizers always be ignoring pertinent information.

        • wehoaks

          You clearly don’t follow that networks ratings. Five mil would have kept it on the air easy.

          Criticizer? More like not a thieving entitled douchebag.

          • Uter

            You again ignore the reality that if we are talking about a theoretical world where piracy doesn’t exist, the ratings for EVERY SHOW would go up. So the bar would simply be set at a higher number. Hannibal still would have been canceled because every show that got better ratings than it would have even higher ratings.

            Your comments always ignore reality in favor of repeating your own opinion over and over. You NEVER provide factual information to back up your opinions. Anyone can make an argument that way.

          • wehoaks

            Bahahahahaha I am ignoring a reality? No, I am ignoring the fantasy land you are creating to back up your “opinion”. It’s cute that in your fantasy land you set all the rules, too, and know how everything would exactly play out. You is smart. You may want to look into the demo numbers in your fantasy, though. They determine renewals and cancellations anyway, not total viewers. Go ahead, come back with some cute fantastical ideas with those.

            My comments don’t ignore reality or offer an opinion. Piracy is theft. Piracy is illegal. Those are facts. Can you admit piracy is theft?

          • Uter

            I never claimed piracy was not illegal. You’re even putting words in my mouth now. I’m saying it’s not as bad a thing as you are making it out to be. Your telling me that piracy not existing would have increased only Hannibal’s ratings and all other shows’ viewership would have stayed the same? Because that’s what would have had to happen for Hannibal to have been renewed.

            Again, you continue to spout off without actually saying anything. You just ignore the argument. Show me some PROOF that piracy is the industry, and specifically Hannibal, destroying evil you claim it to be.

          • wehoaks

            How is me asking you a question putting words in your mouth? Jesus Christ do you ever not play victim?

            If piracy didn’t exist? fine I will play along. If it didn’t exist, the increase of viewership would not be the same exact percentage for every damn show, dingus. It hurts smaller shows more, especially smaller shows whose audience would potentially leap over 50% if people watched it in what is considered a proper way. GET IT? Or do you need to play hypothetical more????

            You continue to spout off without saying anything. All you are doing is creating a hypothetical where you create the world, the rules, and the results you stupid shit.

            Now carry on being a cheap entitled asshole, what the fuck do I care. Just admit you’re a cheap entitled asshole, you cow.

          • Uter

            You put words in my mouth by implying I suggested piracy is legal, which I never did. I have never once “played victim.” I’m on the other side. You’re the one arguing for “the victim.”

            “It hurts smaller shows more.” Who says?

            Your argument almost always resorts to argumentum ad hominem. I would continue but it’s getting tiresome and I can only assume your baiting me at this point. You don’t understand the difference between logic you made up and logic based on evidence or, as a consequence, the argument you’re even trying to make.

          • wehoaks

            “It hurts smaller shows more.” Who says? – LOGIC SAYS moron.

            This is such a cute victim rant. Ad hominem? BD BUZZWORD so cuuuuuute. My argument resorts to it? You’re whoel thing is based on a hypothetical. Bahahahahaha the hypocrisy at work by you is off the charts.

            Enjoy your hypotheticals. I am done talking about them.

            Pirates are thieves. That’s a fact. End of discussing. Bye bye cheap ass.

          • wehoaks

            PS the proof you’re clamoring for is the article you’re responding to. But ya gah ahead and keep ignoring that.

          • graynewt

            You mean the statement by a wealthy industry producer who has a vested interest in blaming forces outside of her control for the failure of her product? Suuuper convincing “article”. I’ll be looking for it in the peer-reviewed journal of Entertainment Industry Dinosaurs Whine About the Tar-Pits Monthly.

          • wehoaks

            Yeah let’s ignore the PA making $12 an hour, or the craft guy making $15. Or the people that needs to support a family.

            Again I am just so amazed at how many of you dolts just cant admit you steal without some random justification.

          • graynewt

            Ah, the time-honored appeal to emotion. Won’t somebody please think of the children?

            Let’s do! So how does obstinately refusing to evolve with technology and spending millions of dollars on lawsuits put food on these people’s tables? You want to pretend that this debate is about THEM but it’s not. It’s your own sense of moral righteousness. Which I can be down with. That’s fair. Don’t toss these straw children and working poor into the mix. Especially not in defense of someone like De Laurentiis.

          • wehoaks

            And still the refusal to just fucking admit you steal and don’t have some random justification for it.

          • graynewt

            Every criminal has a justification. That’s how reason works.

          • wehoaks

            And every justification for piracy boils down to one thing “me”.

          • graynewt

            And? How does that change anything?

          • wehoaks

            My point is that this isn’t about having to wait two hours to view, or pay for cable etc: it’s that every pirate thinks only of themselves and blames everyone else in the process. I can agree is some ways that the studios and networks do this shit to themselves. A pirate, however, can NEVER EVER admit they are part of the problem.

          • alwayswipetwice

            No, it is about them. And by expressing the sentiment you just did, it makes the debate NOT about them.

          • graynewt

            You know why shows need ratings? Ad dollars. Partly to pay for production costs. Which might be lower if people like De Laurentiis didn’t make 1000X as much as the below the line folks. Pirates are no MORE at fault than studios for the state of the industry.

          • alwayswipetwice

            I get what you’re saying about people like De Laurentiis. They will never be unemployed, homeless, and unable to pay their bills, regardless if we pirate their films or not – that’s a reality. But just because it is, doesn’t give us justification to steal. It comes down to principle on behalf on behalf of us – the movie lovers. Perpetuating the mindset that piracy can be justified can never result in anything good for anyone.

            All you need to do is switch your focus from people like him and onto the “nameless” hard workers that make films possible. Did you know there’s a person responsible for replicating the sound of footsteps when an actors doesn’t register or sound right? (and they’re not rich). It’s as simple as changing the way we view the industry and what it means to buy or rent a movie.

          • graynewt

            Don’t forget rampant name-calling. We got us a real Plato here

          • alwayswipetwice

            The Hurt Locker failed at the box office almost certainly because of the piracy numbers in proportion to what it needed to be a financial success. That’s a fact. You can look up the numbers and calculate that it would have easily been successful had those pirates paid for it.

  • RidleyScott

    Thieves are truly the worst, especially when they attempt to justify their actions or refuse to call it thievery.

    Hollywood’s villains, all of them.

    • Captain Spaulding

      Damn those “thieves” who the show wasn’t available to…It was never a sale and never profit because it was not available to alot of people even if they wanted to watch it.

      • RidleyScott

        Meh

  • Mehliens

    How many of these 2 million would have paid to watch if they had no other option? I doubt it would have been many. Thats just not how this works. Most regular people have a tight budget and watching TV shows ranks lowly on how they would want to spend money. Thats a reality studios have to face. Also piracy, even tho its certainly not good for revenue, does increase the popularity of almost anything immensely and that can’t be argued with. Its the best advertisement there is because its directly related to people to people interaction and word of mouth. So stop the short game thinking. I believe if the industry would come up with ideas to consolidate both the negative and positive effects and use it to cash in on this in the long game things could look different.

    • wehoaks

      How about pirates deal with the reality that what they’re doing is theft and a crime and if people call them out on it they don’t have to shit their pants justifying it?

      • Mehliens

        Thats exactly the point I’m making. I think most of them do know. Yet the reality is they wouldn’t have the money anyway and thus justifying it is easy. The problem isnt going away because the moral issue isn’t the issue.

        • wehoaks

          Well the moral issue is somewhat part of it because they refuse to look at it from that standpoint, as well as all the others. They don’t think they’re wrong.

          I don’t think not having the money is a major factor either. I think it’s just they don’t want to spend it, which is much different.

          either way the excuse bingo card is full and they have a chip on every square.

          • Mehliens

            Yes but not wanting to spend money and OR not caring to spend if (if there really was no other option) are a problem that is not going to go away by moaning about it either. The market needs to find ways to reach these people. If they are unreachable then they have to concentrate on those who are within their reach and accept the losses that would never accumulate into reasonable income anyway. I’m not trying to defend I’m just pointing out that without a business model that is able to reach at least a viable percentage of these pirates or even better non pirates who have not yet been exposed to the Series its all just useless whining. Most people I know haven’t seen a single EP of Hannibal and have no intention to ever watch it.

          • wehoaks

            By catering to these people you are just giving into their entitlement even further. I say find their asses and punish them.

          • Mehliens

            I’m seriously just trying to rationalize what that would achieve ^^You have to admit that what I just said makes a lot of sense. A business model that fights uphill battles against a demographic that can’t be forced to pay up is not a smart one. Energy and clever businessmanship needs to be applied where it counts. Also never underestimate long game benefits.

          • wehoaks

            I think what you said does in fact make sense, but I also think you’re forgetting the type of people we are dealing with here. Most pirates are not looking at it for any other reason other than “MEEEEEEEEEEEEE” so if you go at it from one angle, they’ll just blob their flesh to another.

          • Mehliens

            As I said I believe its wasted energy. Converting people by means of crusade won’t work in the age of the internet. Clever business models and forward thinking might have a much better chance and have the benefit of maybe drawing in non pirates who don’t needed to be convinced to pay for a good show in the first place. I’m absolutely convinced that herein lies the only reasonable answer to the current situation.

          • wehoaks

            Pirates will always pirate regardless of what is thrown their way. That’s my point.

          • Tim Hayes

            I don’t think that’s completely true. MOST pirates do so for reasons of convenience, not because they are out to harm others or are the most narcissistic selfish people in the world. I’m sure there are plenty of them, but to generalize so many millions of people like you know them inside and out is a textbook composition fallacy.

            A lot of people who pirate through file sharing platforms simply can’t afford full cable packages. Or subscription services. Or rentals. I’m sure they wouldn’t sit here and claim it’s completely on the up and up – and they probably truly believe they’re not causing as much harm to the avg set worker as they might be, but I don;t think it’s an intentionally malicious act. If anything, it’s a crime of ignorance. They might think it’s more victim less than it is.

            At the same time, the file sharing community often makes good points. Like the record industry, studio execs will always always always take home the large paychecks they’ve always been taking. Any pain that piracy causes a program is intentionally passed down to the show’s employees. Not the network. That, in and of itself, seems quite wrong. It’s clear that the networks themselves are willing to let they’re money makers hurt before they’d ever consider taking home less $ themselves, something they could easily do for the good of the network, the shows, the fans, etc… It’s not much diff. than when CEOs essentially give themselves multi-million $ bonuses at the end of years where they actually lost their shareholder’s money. It’s the opposite of, say, Nintendo’s CEO who recently took a 50% pay cut in order hold his company accountable and get it back on track. It’s not impossible, it’s just something greedy exec’s will rarely consider even though there’s nothing stopping them.

            Piracy can be done for all sorts of purposes. Whether you like it or not, it’ll never end. Like all crimes of theft, it’s very easy to raise or lower theft rates. If you have a problem with people stealing bread, the proper response isn’t to call them all selfish thieves and throw them in jail. The proper response is to figure out how to make bread cheaper and more plentiful so that the avg consumer can access it without having to resort to theft. Most human beings are more than happy to participate in an equitable exchange for goods and services. When you make that exchange more difficult than it needs to be, and allow various industries and middle men to take control, people WILL resort to other means to get a hold of what they need. Of course there’s a grey area where my claim applies. I’m not saying that the solution to jewelry theft is to lower the cost of all jewelry and make it available to all…

            My point is, a network like NBC could easily bring huge portions of Hannibal pirates away from piracy if they provided more support to the showrunners. There will be selfish assholes who want to download it regardless, maybe even to purposely hurt the staff (I’ve seen plenty of these misguided people. One even in these comments.) But if watching Hannibal were a little cheaper, and a little easier, I bet we’d all be shocked to see how many people started watching it legally.

            Sure, buying an antenna isn’t the hardest thing to do. But the NFL has learned in the last few years alone it isn’t an answer to piracy. The Superbowl can often be seen on antenna but people would rather watch on apps and web platforms. So what’s their response? They’re working to make the superbowl more and more accessible through phones, smart tv apps, etc… It’s a bit convoluted now but it’s progressing. This is not something a lot of networks have cared enough to focus on. As such, pirates will find other ways to watch. I don;t blame the showrunners. I blame the networks and the pirates. I don;t have to condone piracy to understand it. It’s a natural, forseeable reaction.

            I just don’t think it’s helpful, accurate, or logical to paint all pirates with such a wide brush. You may want to consider digging a little deeper and stop with this repetitive, close-minded commentary. But keep on keeping on with the narrow views if you want to convince no one and see nothing change.

          • wehoaks

            That is the longest way to say “It’s all about MEEEEEEEEEE” ever.

          • Tim Hayes

            Whatever helps you sleep at night kid.

          • wehoaks

            Funny, I was going to say that to you for comparing a starving person NEEDING food to live to a cow stealing a show/movie/song because they just have to have it. yeah, totes same thing.

          • Tim Hayes

            Kid, others here in these comments have been open to
            admitting that pieces of the opposition argument do make sense, even if they have a diff. point of view. They don’t insult strangers. They don’t repeat the same phrase over and over and over again. They’re open minded and conciliatory. This makes sense because the world is not, in fact, black and white. It seems like maybe you’ve never realized that on your own. We’re on Bloody Disgusting to connect with other horror fans, not talk shit about them, or about huge swathes of people we’ve never met.

            I’m not sure if you are incapable of seeing the bigger picture, or if you have some rare disease that causes an immediate, fatal brain aneurysm if you were to utter the phrase, “You might have a point.”

            I feel bad for you. It must be tough to interact with people when you can’t help but have such annoying, stand-offish ways of conversing.

            And $20 says you’re the kind of person who has to get the last word in or you’ll lose their mind.

          • wehoaks

            I think you have some valid points. But I think a lot of them — a showrunner losing his show, a network canceling a show, profits being lost or kept in the pockets of those at the top — can be answered with one reply: Are the pirates themselves EVER to blame or does justification ALWAYS trump any responsibility? Because the answer I see here is mostly and regularly “No.” It’s everyone else’s problem/fault/issue EXCEPT the person doing the pirating. And that has been and always will be my point. So yeah, I will repeat the same thing. I will make the same point over and over. Because my same point rings true with every lame ass excuse played.

            And at the end of the day, most of this “debate” is raging on because some cheap cow won’t pay $1.99 to view something.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Pirates are always to blame when there’s consequences to their actions. To not take responsibility for having a part in the cancellation of a show or the financial failure of a movie would be sociopathic.

            What I’m stuck on are the cases where there is (seemingly) no consequences (ie: movies that are most pirated, yet go on to become the highest grossing of all time). I don’t know the ins and outs of Hollywood’s economy, so from my perspective as a consumer/audience member, there doesn’t always seem to be consequences. And so that disconnect makes it hard to understand how specific cases of piracy do long-term damage to individuals. If there are no consequences for an action, then is there no blame to be placed on that individual?

          • Captain Spaulding

            I haven’t seen someone put in their place like that in ages, nicely done.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Agreed (with the first paragraph, at least).

          • alwayswipetwice

            “…and they probably truly believe they’re not causing as much harm to the avg set worker as they might be, but I don;t think it’s an intentionally malicious act. If anything, it’s a crime of ignorance. They might think it’s more victim less than it is.”

            ^^This^^ In my opinion is a huge part of it. Mainly because I was in that group until I actually started thinking critically about the ripple effect because of this very conversation (I use “conversation” lightly considering most of it has just been an exchange of belittling insults, which achieves nothing except to satisfy the one dishing it out). Yes, the definition of a thief is black and white, but to address the problem people need to stop worrying about the “what” and start asking “why”. The problem needs to be understood before it can be solved.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Not wasted energy:
            http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/06/piracy-film-music-study-pay-illegal-download-damage

            You can get people to do anything with a clever ad campaign. That reality is older than the existence of piracy itself.

          • graynewt

            It worked super well with the War on Drugs. And the War on Terror.

            Go hang out with Frank Castle. You guys seem to have similar problem-solving styles.

          • wehoaks

            Bahahahahahahahaha ADORABLE.

          • graynewt

            My lolcat pic? Yep. It IS pretty adorable.

          • wehoaks

            It is very cute. But what about the war on gay marriage? Or the war on uteruses? How can we shoehorn that into the fact that cows just won’t pay $1.99 to watch something??

          • alwayswipetwice

            It’s not the market. Movies are more available than ever. If the industry wants to fight piracy, they need a creative ad campaign to get people to listen and understand – like any issue or product. The only ones we hear speaking out about it are usually execs who will never have to worry about unemployment in their lives. The effect of piracy is job loss, so the ones losing jobs should be leading the campaign front and center.

        • alwayswipetwice

          No, movie piraters do have money and do spend it on movies (http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/market-data-research/other/telecoms-research/oci-wave4)
          A solid campaign is all it takes – just like any other issue. Probably one that’s voiced by those left jobless due to piracy. There’s plenty of competent ad agencies to get it done.

  • wehoaks

    Pirates always have the most creative imaginations! I do love that about them. I particularly love the dude below that says he is basically the best advertisement for a show.

    Fucking morons.

    • Tim Hayes

      We get it. You don’t like pirates. Chill out.

      • wehoaks

        Wanna jerk each other off?

  • J Jett

    i’m sorry but most of season 3 of this show sucked. maybe THAT is why ratings started to decline so severely.

    • Richter Belmont

      I liked season 3 but I’ll be honest, your response is my favourite on this thread! : )

      • J Jett

        thanx Richter! don’t get me wrong, some of season 3 was great but i know for a fact that tons of people hated it (definitely the first 3 or 4 eps of season 3 which in turn had people not watching the remaining eps). almost every person i know who watched the show hated season 3 and stopped watching very early into that season. it sounds like Martha DeLaurentiis is trying to blame everything other than the crappy start to season 3.

        • Simon Allen

          Totally with you …..I almost gave up on it myself !

  • Rude_Gamer

    Please….give me a break

  • wehoaks

    It amazes me that most pirates can’t even just simply admit that piracy is theft. That’s the kind of twat you deal with when talking about piracy.

    • Creepshow

      Not only that, but they feel the need to justify it. Ass-bags

      • wehoaks

        And turn it into a debate. You don’t get to have an opinion on facts. Piracy is theft. End of discussion.

        • Creepshow

          By not paying for something, they have extra money for Doritos and trash bags to cover their windows with.

          • wehoaks

            But Creep don’t you know, most pirates are just trying it out so they can pay for it later DUH!

          • Creepshow

            And be the bestest advertisers for the product.

          • wehoaks

            You always know you’re dealing with a logical and calm dude when they start every comment with BUT BUT BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT….

          • Creepshow

            How many others are “seething” reading this? But won’t respond because they will be exposed as crooks & cheap. But others are just plain dumb and do it anyways.

          • wehoaks

            I love the hypotheticals they’ll come up with. The best is we are the assholes to them. S’cute.

          • BloodyDisgusted

            Give it a couple of hours, I’m sure you’ll be reading plenty of arguments filled with typos that try to justify piracy.

          • Creepshow

            Records will be broken with the amount of “buts” typed.

          • wehoaks

            All I see, with every argument, is “MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!”

          • graynewt

            Sounds like a bias.

          • J Jett

            i like pretzels though. 🙂

          • graynewt

            Cool shit stereotype bro.

    • graynewt

      Piracy is theft. I am a thief. As are MILLIONS of others. Kinda like marijuana smokers break the law. Laws change. Did the War on Drugs work? Nope. Neither will the War on Piracy.

      • wehoaks

        Actually the real comparison would be someone who uses marijuana stealing it from their dealer. I’d like to see you sack up and do that shit.

        • graynewt

          You CAN! I make drug deal ripoff videos! Oh, but they’re only available on PirateBay…

          • wehoaks

            Deflection? Shocking.

          • graynewt

            Sorry, how is it a deflection for me to not engage in your fantasy of me mugging a drug dealer? If you want to toss around deflection, how about you address the effectiveness of the War on Drugs? No? You’d rather call me cute or write fake internet laughter or be an internet tough guy getting his jollies dreaming about violence perpetrated on those who deign to disagree with him?

            That’s cool too. You do you.

          • wehoaks

            You brought up the “war on drugs” as a comparison, I put it in the proper context for you. But yeah you keep playing wittle victim. And I’m not gonna talk about the “war on drugs” it’s neither here nor there. But you keep comparing the two if you want.

          • graynewt

            I brought up the War on Drugs because you, like so many others, like to talk about the Right vs Wrong of the subject with NO idea about how to effectively enforce your ideal. “Piracy is stealing and stealing is Wrong!”

            Okay. And what do you propose to do about it? If it’s just legal action, guess what? It doesn’t work. A War on Piracy will fail just like the War on Drugs has failed.

          • wehoaks

            And again STEALING a show because you’re a cheap asshole is not even remotely in the same neighborhood as the drug debate.

            PS fucking legalize all drugs.

          • graynewt

            So it’s a moral debate. Which I figured. So… hop on down off that cross.

          • wehoaks

            No, it’s a you’re a cheap asshole. There is no debate.

            Answer this question: are pirates themselves culpable in any way or is everyone else but them to blame?

          • graynewt

            Sure they’re culpable. Why are you so stuck on culpability or blame? Again: Right/Wrong. Black/White. That’s your view and it doesn’t work for real.

          • wehoaks

            I am stuck on it because most of these pirates refuse to take responsibility and/or refuse to admit that they are helping to hurt the industry. If they had the capability to do so maybe it wouldn’t be so rampant. Now go ahead and reply saying blah blah, its gonna happen, blah blah, money, blah blah, drugs, blah.

          • graynewt

            blah blah, it’s gonna happen, blah blah, money, blah blah, drugs, blah.

            Do I get a quarter?

          • wehoaks

            No. You get a mushtat.

          • RidleyScott

            Blah fucking blah

          • graynewt

            Do blahs procreate? I bet they do. And they write for Gawker.

          • alwayswipetwice

            And if you don’t take it upon yourself to do more research about how piracy affects others, and maybe listen to the little people who work on films instead of just the execs, then you’re not really concerned about whether it does or doesn’t have a negative impact in the first place. You’re using one person on the internet as an excuse to continue pirating.

          • graynewt

            I work below the line. I’ve considered the effect that piracy has on my industry and have concluded that it’s not the problem. The industry itself is at fault.

          • alwayswipetwice

            From what I know, hell yeah the industry is riddled with problems. But I don’t think the two issues are mutually exclusive either.

          • graynewt

            There’s”irrefutable” proof that piracy doesn’t affect film sales, music sales, and TV ratings. Most statistics on the subject can be countered by another source of statistics.

            I don’t think piracy is *good* but I am not convinced that it’s the ill some people think.

          • alwayswipetwice

            I guess the use of statistics proves to be as pointless as ever in a debate, considering both sides will always find a statistic to support their point. Meanwhile:
            1. Neither side bothers to check the methodology of the research (which is what gives it its credibility).
            2. Neither side has to form a logical and rational argument as long as their letting numbers do the talking.

  • Neckbeard

    Oh well.

    People willing to schedule their lives around the times that their favorite TV shows air, are a dying breed. I will continue to watch the shows I enjoy, via download at a time that suits me.

    • alwayswipetwice

      No, you’re not going to enjoy anything you love if you don’t support it. Hannibal comes from America, which is a capitalist economy, meaning you just don’t vote with your ballots, but also with your dollars.

  • Si Llage

    Dino De Laurentis, Martha’s husband, was worth an estimated 120 million when he died in 2010.

    Fuck the the farthest fucking reaches of Hell every mega-wealthy asshole who pulls out the poor, suffering “every last crew member and creative” to complain about not making ever more obscene amounts of money.

    • Tim Hayes

      You don’t understand this at all…

      • Si Llage

        Care to explain?

        One person fills a room with newspapers and get called a mentally ill hoarder, but the mega-wealthy collect multiple mansions, cars and media studios and we’re supposed to think they’re not unhealthy hoarders.

        Then again, some people worship the wealthy with a remarkable adulation that goes against their self interest.

        • I don’t think the issue is unfair pay, though that certainly is a topic for discussion (celebrities making millions compared to the crew that supports them). I think her point was merely these people are now out of a job due to the cancellation of the show. That cancellation may have been avoided had everyone watching the show done so through legitimate means thus continuing the flow of ad revenue to offset the cost of production.

          • alwayswipetwice

            How does the pay system work when a show isn’t cancelled or a movie isn’t a financial success, but is heavily pirated?

      • alwayswipetwice

        Don’t explain. Education leads to change.

    • The Art of the Hammer

      Yup. If she wanted everyone to be economically well off, she would be arguing for more equitable pay.

  • Gavin Dobbs

    Obligatory political post:

    Piracy IS illegal. There is no doubt about that. However, I’m also kind of curious if there is the same fire in the hearts of people who are the most ardent critics of ILLEGAL piracy towards ILLEGAL immigration? Do you believe that people who are bypassing and not abiding by immigration laws are starting their lives already committing a crime, or do you believe that anyone who points that out is a racist bigot who needs to be burned off the internet?

    • wehoaks

      Someone fleeing one land to go to another whether it be a refugee, someone looking for a better life, shelter, a home, whatever reason (and I say lets open our arms and embrace them all) is much much much different that some fat twat sitting on a computer illegally streaming a show because their ass refuses to spend the $1.99 on itunes.

      • Gavin Dobbs

        Refugees and illegal immigrants are two very different things.

        Not all pirates are fat either. Just because you do something bad, doesn’t mean that you’re fat. So cool the fat shaming since it has zero relevance to the discussion.

        Back to the discussion… what about inland resources? How can a country be expected to provide for its own people if there is an unchecked flow of new people coming in constantly? Why should one country be required to provide land, living, jobs, and revenue for someone who is not willing to accept the laws and protocols of the country they want to come into? Like this executive producer is talking about in the lives of all the people that worked on the show, each country only has a finite set of resources, and what determines ‘living piracy’ of those?

        • wehoaks

          I took your bait once, now I am done. BYE BYE. But you continue comparing the livelihood of a human being with that of a cow refusing to buy some shit on itunes.

        • RidleyScott

          You get on his case about fat shaming, yet you’re the one who brought up illegal immigration in a PIRACY DISCUSSION. Dumbass.

          • wehoaks

            But what about the right for a woman to choose? How does that compare to fat Gavin wanting to wertch Gi Joe Rise of Cobra for free?!

          • RidleyScott

            Um Gavin’s wants and desires come before any silly woman’s right to choose!

          • wehoaks

            He also clearly hates immigrants. Gavin ers gerd people.

    • RidleyScott

      Who gives a fuck as to what stokes the fire in one’s heart, Gavin? I’ll be mad at all the thieves I want, Gavin, irrespective of my stance on something ENTIRELY different.

  • Romero Garcia

    Let’s assume I pirated Hannibal. If I did, it was because it was more convenient for me to watch it where and when I wanted to. They released the show online the day after. If they wanted to defeat piracy, give us the link at the start of the show where we could watch it online. Let us know. Have it available on the site the same time it aired. I’m not a customer of cable or cable in general is declining. To defeat piracy give the customers what they want.

    • wehoaks

      OMG HOW DARE THEY MAKE YOU WAIT 12 WHOLE HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Romero Garcia

        The numbers show. There are 2 million people that don’t want to wait. You can bemoan them their impatience, ignore it out of principle, and watch your show die, or you can give the people what they want because they’ll take it anyways.

        • wehoaks

          Or you could have purchased cable to watch it as it aired or watched it via your antenna (FOR FREE) as it aired as it was on BROADCAST tv. It’s sounds like what you should truly want (and need) is a brain.

          • Romero Garcia

            I don’t have cable because it’s cheaper to only pay for internet and get everything I want. The cable industry is reluctant to change and as a consumer I will do and support whichever practices I agree with. One example of an ideal made real was The Legend of Korra. It was taken off cable and aired exclusively online through it’s affiliate site. Assuming I was a pirate, I would have instead watched it online through it’s official channel and supported it. The showrunners even stated they moved it online because that’s where most of their audience was and wanted it. They listened. Korra was fantastic, and ended on a wonderful note. Everyone was happy. The world was just a littler brighter.

          • wehoaks

            Hannibal aired on BROADCAST TELEVISION, you don’t need cable to view those channels. IT’S FREEEEEEEEEEEEE!

            You are a pirate.

          • Romero Garcia

            I’m talking about why shows are pirated in general not just Hannibal such as the infamously pirated show, Game of Thrones. Even on broadcast TV, the access to a computer is much easier than a TV. It’s about cable services and convenience none of which cable has.

          • wehoaks

            “MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!” – every pirate excuse ever.

          • wehoaks

            And I am talking about Hannibal on an article about Hannibal. Which you could have watched legally for FREEEEEEEEEEEE. Carry on thief.

          • graynewt

            Are you brought to us today by the letter E?

          • wehoaks

            Yes.

    • wehoaks

      They are giving you want you want and you could watch it when it airs. You choose NOT to get cable. You want them to come blow you while you watch too?

      PS Hannibal was on NBC – you could have watched for free WITHOUT cable by using your good ole digital antenna, too, genius.

    • Creepshow

      BEEEP BEEEP goes the larceny alarm.

      • wehoaks

        Don’t you know, the network must cater to Romero and Romero only.

    • BloodyDisgusted

      Yes, to defeat piracy just give everything away for free. YAY!!!

      • Romero Garcia

        They need to change their business practices to cater to an increasing online viewership crowd. These networks are complaining about how piracy harms them, like Hannibal, but they’re reluctant to evolve to a changing, growing online market. Hannibal died because it didn’t change and because of piracy. Piracy won’t end so the networks need to change and trust me, they will, over time or else they’ll sink too.

        • wehoaks

          “MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!” – Romero Garcia

          • Romero Garcia

            Yes. Me, my brothers, my family, my grandmother, my father especially, my neighbors, and my friends; assuming we were pirates we are also consumers and we support what practices we agree with. Right now, the growing consensus is that cable companies as they are need to change with the times.

          • wehoaks

            “MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!” – Romero’s entire family.

            I don’t have cable and manage to not pirate. I use Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and even GASP pay for individual episodes on iTunes. You have legit options, your cheap ass just chooses to ignore them then justify.

          • Romero Garcia

            I pay for Netflix and Crunchyroll. These are practices that I agree with that give me the shows I want, at my convenience for a fair price. I have no need to pirate these show offerings and support these sites. So do my friends and family. My whole family has Netflix.

          • wehoaks

            You agreeing with shit or not is so irrelevant, dope. You have legit options, you choose to ignore them. Then again this whole time you basically have made this all about you.

            “MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” – Pirates

          • alwayswipetwice
      • alwayswipetwice

        If we want to defeat piracy, we should treat people like they’re such pieces of irredeemable crap that they tune out of hearing anything we might have to say. And we definitely shouldn’t give them any insight that might change the way they think about how the industry works. But if we do, make sure it sounds snarky as hell, so they think we’re just internet trolls trying to rile people up.

  • wehoaks

    The best about all of this is NBC aired Hannibal, meaning all these nimrods could have watched it for FREE, legally, by using a good ole fashioned antenna. DOLTS.

    • Neckbeard

      They did watch it for free, just in way which is more convenient for them. If the show was good, it would still be on air.

      • wehoaks

        They watched it illegally. Big difference.

        And yes, only good shows are on the air. Mike & Molly is shakespearean.

        • Neckbeard

          If it were a legal requirement to watch shows upside down, would you do it?

          Mike & Molly may be shit, but clearly not as shit as Hannibal.

          • wehoaks

            Jesus more idiots with hypotheticals.

            Bahahahahahahahahaha you are a fucking dope with Hannibal must be shit because it got cancelled. Twin peaks is considered one of the greatest shows of all time and was cancelled during season 2. Does that suddenly make it shit? FUCKTARD.

          • Neckbeard

            “Twin peaks is considered one of the greatest shows of all time”
            By who? fans of shit shows. If it were good It wouldn’t have been cancelled.

            I don’t know what amuses me more. The silly little things that you get triggered by, or the fact that you probably support Bernie.

          • wehoaks

            You may be the dumbest person on here.

            I support Bernie and Hillary. Don’t trip over your drool.

          • Neckbeard

            Oh god, you’re comedy gold. Never change babe.

          • wehoaks

            You please change. You’re dumb as fuck. Go figure, a dumb ass republican.

          • Neckbeard

            I wouldn’t call myself a Republican. I’m not American and I don’t pay close enough attention to American politics to do that.

            You’re so cute when you’re triggered by the way.

          • wehoaks

            You’re so cute thinking eyeballs = quality.

            TRANSFORMERS FOUR IS THE BEST MOVIE EVER BECAUSE IT MADE SO MUCH MONEY!

          • Neckbeard

            If only there was a way for people to find out if they like a movie before they decide to pay for it. Perhaps if they watched the movie on their PC somehow.

          • wehoaks

            Oh cute, you’re one of those honest thieves who pays AFTER they steal. So adorbs.

          • Neckbeard

            There aren’t very many movies I would watch twice. There are no movies I would pay to watch after I have already watched them.

          • wehoaks

            Well you gotta save that dough so you can buy vagina once in a while. I getcha.

          • Neckbeard

            I’m glad to see we are on the same page.

          • wehoaks

            You’ve banged someone while they were passed out haven’t you?

          • Neckbeard

            WHO SAID YOU COULD PUT CAMERAS IN MY HOUSE?

          • wehoaks

            Yikes.

          • Freddy D Roberts
          • Freddy D Roberts

            No point Neckbeard..

          • BloodyDisgusted

            Because a movie rental is so expensive.

          • Neckbeard

            Rent? as in for a short period of time?

            Sounds inconvenient to me.

          • graynewt

            You’re both so cute because you think accusing each other of cuteness is a good way to conduct a debate/argument. Gosh I just wanna pinch your cheeks!

          • Neckbeard

            Thanks babe.

          • graynewt

            I read that in Tommy Wiseau’s voice.

          • wehoaks

            What debate? Piracy is theft. That’s a fact. I want to pet your cat. Bye dudester.

          • RidleyScott

            MEEEEEEEE ME ME ME

          • Neckbeard

            I was wondering when wehoaks shadow would make an appearance.

          • wehoaks

            Keep defecting.

            Transformers 4 made a gazillion dollars – that means it is a GREAT MOVIE.

          • Neckbeard

            I haven’t seen it, but I guess a lot of people must like it, for it to make that much money. They must have done something right.

          • wehoaks

            You seriously are a fucking moron.

          • Neckbeard

            ( ͡° ʖ̯ ͡°)

        • Tremors

          That doesn’t effect the money intake though. The show was free to watch no matter what. How do you think it works? A little receiver somewhere tells them that you’re watching the show and they get $5? Piracy of broadcast tv shows doesn’t effect money for those shows, it just effects ratings.

          • wehoaks

            It’s called COMMERCIALS genius.

          • Tremors

            There’s no special receiver telling advertisers you saw their commercials. As someone who produces commercials for a living, advertising is more of a gamble than anything, especially in the modern age, and is based off sampled generalized ratings info. Thanks for the condescension though.

          • wehoaks

            You’re welcome. Dumbass. Ratings determine the price a network can charge to air a commercial. Come back to me when you have a clue as to what the fuck you’re talking about.

          • Tremors

            You called me a dumbass and repeated what I said . . . Good work, champ.

          • wehoaks

            And the dumbass ignores the part where I tell it how ratings determine advertising rates. Moron.

          • RidleyScott

            “A little receiver somewhere tells them that you’re watching the show and they get $5?”

            Um, actually, have you ever heard of Nielsen ratings?

          • Tremors

            Yes I have. I work in media advertising. And that’s not gow Nielsen works. It’s more of a survey sample than anything.

      • alwayswipetwice

        There’s nothing more convenient than having the entirety of basic cable programming broadcast to your home for a one-time payment of an antenna. You’re disregarding the effects of ratings and advertising (and making one of the most illogical arguments: correlation equals causation). By that flawed logic, that would mean because more people order pizza when it rains, then it rains because people order pizza.

    • Mehliens

      I have no clue how the statistics for viewership are generated in the US but if it is true that watching the show was free to begin with than the medium aka TV didn’t seem like the smartest choice as the only consumer end of the show? Or maybe I’m reading this wrong?

      • wehoaks

        Broadcast networks charge advertisers to air commercials. That’s how they essentially offer free over the air programming.

        • Mehliens

          So much I guessed but how do they account for the ratings? Here in Europe a small group of people have boxes connected to their tv that is monitoring their viewing preferences. (Those statistics are scaled proportional to the population size.) That means that its absolutely of no significance how and what regular people consume because the statistics are exclusively generated by that small group of people being monitored officially.

          • wehoaks

            There is a similar sample here but viewers also counted via DVR, legit online viewing, apps, etc etc.

    • RidleyScott

      YEAH BUT THE GAYS ER GETTIN’ MARRIED!

  • carlos.filipe

    I am to blame for that part i guess. But what about the other 4 most illegaly download shows? all canceled? What if Netflix had picked up? What if AMC was the original owner? or HBO, NBC was amazing with this show, hats of to them, the best horror show ever made. Either they got bad luck, in this golden age of horror tv, or their was bad management with timeslots, so i have read (not sure how true)

  • Grimphantom

    The solution was if they air the recent episode, show it later online for free or have Netflix and stream all of the episodes.

    NBC and other networks still living in the stone age with the ratings where ratings means nothing. I won’t be surprise that in a few years we might see a revival of the show, some will say yeah right but you never know

    • gala2

      I’m confused by this. NBC showed this for free the next day. So why pirate it at all? Perhaps the thing to do would be to make it available two hours after broadcast in your time zone

      • graynewt

        Why not make it available online AT THE SAME TIME? Other than the obvious corporate BS reasons, that is…

        • gala2

          If you have to wait a whole TWO hours to keep it FREE , isn’t it worth it? you’ll be able to watch it any time you want after that.

          • graynewt

            Maybe. But what possible argument is there against same time distribution? People want to talk about the selfishness of not waiting but isn’t it selfishness that makes us wait? Why two hours?

          • wehoaks

            Remember around 2006 and before when you had to watch it live or if you missed the rerun you were fucked. CAN YOU BELIEVE PEOPLE LIVED LIKE THAT?!!!! Life is so hard!

      • tomlois

        I am even more confused, I watched it legally OTA in Canada and saw the finale a week before my American counterparts as well as keeping silent for that week. Should I have been chatting it up for that week?

      • Grimphantom

        I think it’s possible because some are living in other countries and couldn’t access those episodes, that’s my guess.

        Anyway i do think that NBC blaming on people downloading episodes for free it’s an obvious scapegoat, it’s the same that happen with the cartoon series “Young Justice” that CN/WB blames girls of watching the show and they are not the target audience……….seriously?

  • Tremors

    Actual, total bs. That’s not how broadcast tv works. Piracy would have no effect on a show that’s free to view if you just own a television. This is insane and she’s full of crap

    • wehoaks

      How about pirates watch a show thats free legally then. More eyeballs equals more advertising dollars for NBC, thus no loss of revenue. Economics is hard I know.

    • Chris Mosher

      Advertising revenue. By pirating the show has lower ratings so the show gets less advertising revenue.

      • Tremors

        Man I work in media advertising. It doesn’t work that way.

    • alwayswipetwice

      Ratings and advertising. If people show no interest, then why should they bother to continue producing it?

  • wehoaks

    Call me names all you want, I don’t give a shit. Just don’t be a lying hypocrite in the process.

    • graynewt

      If I was a lying hypocrite, would that mean I actually DO behave in line with my stated ethics? Like… Am I lying about my hypocrisy? Just trying to work out the adverb usage.

      • wehoaks

        I just yawned.

  • KeliOK

    What percentage of the illegal viewers were from other countries and would not have been viewers otherwise?

    • RidleyScott

      Lol off topic but have you ever had to shit so bad you felt like your lil tummy was gonna explode?

  • wehoaks

    War on drugs? Some cheap cow refusing to pay $1.99 to watch something they are not entitled too is not even remotely the same thing.

    War on terror? Some cheap cow refusing to pay $1.99 to watch something they are not entitled too is not even remotely the same thing.

    Illegal immigration? Some cheap cow refusing to pay $1.99 to watch something they are not entitled too is not even remotely the same thing.

    Needing bread to live, to not starve? Some cheap cow refusing to pay $1.99 to watch something they are not entitled too is not even remotely the same thing.

    Nothing worse than some cheap cow refusing to pay $1.99 to watch something they are not entitled too comparing themselves to something greater than each and every one of us.

    • Tim Hayes

      I get the feeling that you’re Donald Trump’s number one supporter.

      • wehoaks

        You’re feeling is fucking retarded.

        • Tim Hayes

          Lol whoa, thin skin much?

          That sentence doesn’t make much sense. Also, it’s pretty crude. Can’t you do any better than that?

          You’re either Trump’s ideal American, or you are Trump.

          • wehoaks

            Grasping at straws much? Nice deflection though.

            Go ahead and suck my erect, liberal dick.

    • alwayswipetwice

      I’m not defending piracy, but I’m genuinely trying to understand the effects of piracy on movies that are the highest grossing of all time. Is it that the little guys who are involved get laid off? Or does it have to do with residuals?
      As a crime there’s no grey area – all piracy is illegal – but the issue is indisputably multifaceted, in that its effects are disproportionate on certain media. Hannibal and Transformers are the perfects examples, with the former suffering gravely while the existence of the latter is seemingly unaffected.
      I agree with you on virtually every issue that comes up, so I trust you know what you’re talking about and can educate me on an issue that I’m admittedly ignorant about.

  • Andrew Kasch

    All internet claims that piracy does not hurt the industry come from
    entitled reclusive shut-ins who justify their own thievery. Try actually
    making a LIVING in the entertainment industry now a days. Budgets have
    shrunk to nothing, distribution profits
    are at an all-time low. Modest budgets films have been completely
    eliminated – now films are made for either $100 million or $20,000. It’s
    virtually impossible to make a living as a director unless you’re under
    contract with a studio. Below-the-line jobs are more scarce and
    competitive than ever. So anytime someone claims piracy doesn’t hurt the
    industry, I take it very personal because it’s a straight out attack on
    everything we do out here.

    With the existence of web streaming and iTunes, there is no excuse not to watch your favorite shows LEGALLY. And if you pull the pity “Boo-hoo, I need to wait 12 hours to watch them after they air” crap…sorry, but that’s how TV works. Shows are completed right up to the deadline and nobody has any magic pixie dust that can get them processed through these channels faster.

    • wehoaks

      Bingo. The biggest issue with piracy is the entitlement. Most, if not all, can’t see past anyone or anything but themselves.

      • Captain Spaulding

        Or they can’t legally watch a show even if they wanted to, It’s amazing to think there’s people in all those other countries I thought people only lived in Murica.

        • wehoaks

          (Yawns)

          • Captain Spaulding

            Its great i can pirate things I’m “not allowed” to watch due to where i live, So I’m stealing something that doesn’t exist (Duplicated digital file) Since i was not intended to be customer no profit was gained or lost with many others in the same boat.Oh i guess i have to accept i wasn’t allowed watch it and not illegally stream it cause “Were a stupid company” I don’t wanna sound childish here but (u mad bro?)

          • wehoaks

            Use the money you saved to register for an adult English class.

          • Captain Spaulding

            Use the money i saved? I couldn’t spend the money in the first place idiot that’s my point which seems to have gone straight over your head.Good ol Murican education system at work again.. Looks like you’ve been put in your place for the 50th time in two threads about piracy but here you are “answer for everything” and upvoting yourself to feel better too? Get a life.

          • wehoaks

            Good god go to the learning annex.

          • Captain Spaulding

            (Yawns) Don’t forget to upvote yourself :).

          • wehoaks

            Haven’t once. But k?

    • wehoaks

      And it’s no coincidence that the spec market basically died out as piracy rose.

    • VTTM

      So, knowing this, people in the industry who have the power to change things should do everything to minimize the reasons as to why someone would download things illegally. For instance, I live in Brazil and I usually have to wait 2 weeks to see an episode after it’s aired in the USA (sometimes more than 3 weeks). That is, IF the show ever gets transmitted here. And all this wait for a shitty portuguese dubbed version or some shitty subtitles. So, after all, it’s a no-brainer that I’ll certainly download things illegally because – first of all – they’re NEVER available for purchase outside the US (even the services you mentioned, when available here, have different catalogues); I have no need to wait an absurd time for a translation if I effing understand English (translation is the reason cable channels give for taking so long for bringing an episode, and I should know, because I work in the area); I would NEVER pay for something unless I’m certain it’s well worth the money, as I now have boxes of awesome shows in my collection that cost a fortune – because, of course, the ones who could make an effort to see them available internationally just couldn’t do anything, even in cases where there’s been a lot of interest in a show over here – so I had to import.
      In the end, what I’m trying to say is: the ones responsible for international sales and airing rights must adapt to the new market, as every other kind of media. To see this happening and doing nothing to give people more legal options is dumb. Complaining and condemning piracy is also dumb. I don’t watch “The Walking Dead”, but I know that the channel here was granted the right to air the episode simultaneously to the airing in the US, because of the hit it is. Guess what? Everyone I know who watches it is no longer torrenting it.
      Finally, I’d like to know how exactly I’m doing harm to a series like Ghost Adventures, which is not even aired around here, if I download the episodes, talk about them on the web, make the show known here and even buy the seasons on DVD. I don’t see any harm for producers to have their show watched, that is, to have an audience, where their show isn’t even aired. This only increases the chances of a cable channel wanting to acquire the rights of their show.

    • Joseph Sheldahl

      Who are you again? A nobody, that’s right.
      A nobody who took the time to post a comment on an article ranting about his opinion that ultimately doesn’t matter. Piracy hasn’t hurt the industry, the industry has been reacting to a blow it’s never received. The only time piracy admittedly hurts anything is when something is released illegally ahead of time. See: Expendables 3. The industry wants people to use these exclusive channels, so when their shit falls through- they can reduce budgets, take a hit, and blame ‘piracy’. It’s a blanket statement and an easy target. Sure, point your finger at the millions of people who probably weren’t going to bother with your show anyways and say it’s them. Nobody cares enough to go out of their way unless it’s right at their finger tips. Say for a moment, that the avenues and means to pirate didn’t exist- the same people who pirated the show? Wouldn’t have watched it at all. Bottom line.
      It’s hard making a living as a director these days? Blame the industry. Not the idiots who pirate shit. They’re only as guilty as people who never watched the show at all.

      • Andrew Kasch

        The only person making blanket statements is you, random internet dweller. You can try and justify your shit all you want, but you are on the outside looking in.

        • alwayswipetwice

          What happens to crew members’ pay when the movie they worked on is heavily pirated? To be honest, the only times I’d thought about piracy was during those goofy ads at the movies (which I assumed was persuading people from buying bootleg copies instead of official releases) and reading statements from studio execs (who don’t exactly have the same struggles of the little people who slave to make their media).

          I’ve understand the consequences to be cancellation and financial failure, but I’m still trying to understand what happens when a hugely successful movie is also heavily pirated. This was always a major piece of the issue that I never understood and still don’t. Except now I won’t use it as an excuse to pirate films. I feel like this ignorance could be what others use to justify it too, so educating people is a key part in reforming other piraters.

          • Andrew Kasch

            A below-the-line crew is paid regardless on a project but when piracy hurts profits, less productions are made and those that do are driven out of the country – so there are increasingly less jobs. L.A. production is virtually non existent these days because virtually everything has moved to Canada. The above-the-line cast and crew get hurt because when piracy hurts profits, their residuals are in decline.

            This is particularly devastating when it comes to independent film. I had a movie come out in October that became one of the heaviest pirated movies online at the time. It came out under a very small company, not a giant corporation, so the effects there were particularly devastating.

            Several years ago, I also made a heavily-publicized horror documentary which was made entirely independent of any corporation. Me and my skeleton crew slaved for 8 months on this thing for back-end profits since we had no money. That too was heavily pirated – to the point where people I met at conventions told me they saw the movie on a torrent. When I added up the math at the end of the sales, I think we all made something like 50 cents an hour at the end of the day.

            The cycle goes on and on and on… So when people talk about “sticking it to these greedy billion dollar mega corporations,” they don’t realize the only ones they are hurting are the little guys.

          • alwayswipetwice

            I understand that now, I just never had to think about the ripple effect before because larger movies seem unaffected to someone like me who (was) ignorant to how the industry works. I always thought of piracy in terms of how you explained – hurting the struggling independent films.

            And are you by chance talking about Fantasm?

    • snaxmaster

      Great argument, until you realize study after study after study seems to show you’re wrong.

      • Andrew Kasch
      • alwayswipetwice

        Think about it as a mentality. Even if most movies go on to become financial successes despite being heavily pirated, if that same mentality causes even one movie to fail, then it shouldn’t be embraced. When you look at the numbers and do some basic math, you’ll see that the Hurt Locker undeniably failed because of piracy. Not fucking cool.

        • snaxmaster

          Again, except study after study says that’s, not true. Multiple studies show that movies, music and TV actually benefit from pirating. There may be a few but I haven’t seen a study that says otherwise, only hyperbole. So the fact that you keep saying that when evidence points to the contrary is what’s ” not cool”. The hurt locker loses were a sham. The lawyers not only brought a dubious case to the courts, which was ultimately dismissed, they also used illegal tactics to get people to pay up.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Not talking about the lawsuits, I’m talking about its initial release. It was re-released in theaters after winning Oscars, so I can’t find the original numbers, but anyone who remembers its release will remember it underperforming. THL is besides the point though. It comes down to principle. Before actually reading into it I was pretty ignorant to how the industry works, but ultimately, it comes down to encouraging a mentality that can yield zero positive results if it continues to snowball. And the ones that will, and are, get/getting hit the hardest are the small productions and little people that work on them. Even if there’s a chance you’re affecting the job market for the lower-on-the-totempole workers, then just buy whatever it is you want to see. Statistics show you’re already spending money on movies anyways.

          • snaxmaster

            Except, and I say again, studies show it increases profits and viewership. Those same studies also show that the biggest percentage of buyers are, in fact, the same people who pirate them, negating your entire argument.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Have you read Andrew Kasch’s comment below?

          • snaxmaster

            My point about THL was that it never happened. What does it matter if the movie won an Oscar, it certainly doesn’t mean it should’ve been a blockbuster. The big money makers aren’t usually Oscar winners and the Academy has been shown to be a joke, especially this year. Besides no black nominees, look at the movie Creed. Sylvester Stallone won every award given for his role until the Oscars. Instead they gave to an actor from a sleepy, boring piece of garbage movie. The Oscars are as political as the U.S. Congress.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Well, we agree that the Oscars are bullshit run by bullshitters who will vote for something without even seeing it (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/brutally-honest-oscar-voter-ballot-684839). That’s not what I’m arguing though.

            My point is that small productions are the prime example of how piracy affects the industry and peoples’ lives.

    • snaxmaster

      Entitled reclusive shut in? You mean like Ars Technical, Forbes, inside business weekly, time magazine, Newsweek… And the list goes on and on and on. Why is it that the only studies who show the industry is being hurt are those paid for by the industry and every study who says it’s an exaggeration are those by independents? Why is it that the same research company has done multiple studies on the exact same subject and yet comes up with different conclusions depending on who’s paying for it?

      I’m not saying you’re not losing money, I’m saying it’s an over exaggeration of massive proportions. I’m a software developer. In my career I’ve created tons of applications, tools, websites, etc. Almost all of which have been pirated or infringed upon in some way, so I’m no outsider looking in. I’m there on the front lines and see it and it’s an exaggeration.

      To me, it sounds like you are the one feeling entitled, maybe even egotistic. Just because you created something you think should have made a ton of money and didn’t, doesn’t mean it was piracy that caused it. Maybe, just maybe, and I know it’s a long shot, but maybe it could just mean noone liked it.

      To blame piracy for the lack of imagination in movies and TV is a laugh riot, my friend. Ya know, that’s the same argument when the VCR and beta max came out and when the cassette recorder came out. It was proven just as much crap then as it is now. The reasons we have so much crap TV is because that’s what people watch, period. To think they aren’t being pirated would be completely ignorant. If someone likes what you make, they will buy it. Whether they pirate it or not. Period.

  • BigScaryDuck

    Out of curiosity where did they allow you to watch the show for free? I use Hulu and Netflix via Roku/PS4 (I don’t have cable). I haven’t seen Hannibal but I remember they had an exclusive deal with Amazon Prime, that it is pretty limiting.

    • wehoaks

      NBC is free over the air.

    • gala2

      I just go on the NBC website the next day, And it’s free.So is Vikings which already does this. It comes on free after midnight of the day it is broadcast.

      • I never knew this about the network. Thanks!

  • wehoaks

    Are pirates themselves culpable in any way or is everyone else but them to blame?

  • Chaoschrist

    But if they’re giving it away for “free” how can they cancel it and blame piracy.

    Is pirating a show also asking NBC to pay everyone who downloaded it to pay $5 for the effort?

    As for those pointing out you need an antenna to get NBC. I can put a dozen up on my roof and not have NBC… small tidbit; I’m not living in the US. And thus, the question rises; did piracy only account for a loss in whatever profit in the US or is that globally?

    Also; if piracy killed this, why are Game of Thrones and The walking dead still on; they’re more popular and more widely downloaded than this show (which I enjoyed more the The walking dead)

    • wehoaks

      “But if they’re giving it away for “free” how can they cancel it and blame piracy.”

      Commercials make it free for the viewer.

      • Chaoschrist

        Fair point… but honestly I never understood commercials. I skip them.

        I suppose having a minute of airtime pays for it… until they realise people DVR it and skip commercials; apparently they are a bit behind.

        Unless people run out and buy stuff, they’re not really making a lot of money right away, are they? Not to mention some items just don’t need advertising… toiletpaper? Really?

        • alwayswipetwice

          Companies are just after exposure. Ads and products may seem arbitrary, but the sales numbers don’t lie. The way a product is designed and advertised can make or break sales, as it goes time and time again. Movies aren’t much different, considering they’re producing, packaging, and advertising a product too. And there’s plenty of ebb and flow of artists between both movie and advertising industries.

          So what the hell does this have to do with what we’re talking about? Considering piracy is, and has been, on the rise, a solid ad campaign to educate the public is a necessity. If you’ve seen what they’re working with now, you’ll know it’s about as effective as simply telling someone “DON’T (insert crime)”. In order to have a moral foundation, you need to reason why the action is moral/immoral. Otherwise, we get laws that outlaw drugs, a woman’s right to her body, same-sex marriage (recently overturned), etc.

          • Chaoschrist

            Perhaps I’m the cynic here, but I have a hard time believing the general population wants to be educated what’s right and wrong and told what’s moral and immoral.

            As you point out, there are plenty of laws going on already, yet even when there is jailtime or hefty fines, people don’t care about any kind of moral right doing…

          • alwayswipetwice

            I’m not really sure how to respond to that. It’s understandable to have some cynicism, but the tiny percentage of the population that are psychos/sociopaths that you mention don’t get to dictate the laws and morality of societies. I should hope we agree that’s a given.

            I was misguided and ignorant to the issue of piracy and how it affects the industry, but I’m also progressive minded, meaning I support change when it means the quality of life will be improved for others. If we treat people as apathetic and insensitive like you suggested they are, then crime and an overall decay of society becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  • wehoaks

    “pirates be all…”

    • alwayswipetwice

      THESE are the “fat twats”? Sort of not what I was expecting. I was thinking more South Park’s “Make Love, Not Warcraft”.

  • Freddy D Roberts
  • EvChemical

    I feel like it’s easy to lay the blame on one source. As has been brought up multiple times in this thread, it could have been availability, it could be convenience, it may have been time-slot changes, the show just may have sucked this season. Likely it was all of the above.

    The cable networks need to change how they do things. That isn’t justifying people downloading the show, but its where we are at. You will never convince people that they should pay for something they can access for free, especially if it is more convenient. If you impose too many barriers, people will seek a solution that works for them. Its entitled perhaps, but that’s your viewers.

    I don’t think its accurate to say piracy killed the show. If people didn’t pirate the show, they may not have even watched it at all. Doesn’t excuse not paying for the content, but each downloaded episode wasn’t a “lost sale”. All that can be done is to make it available, and see what happens.

  • Freddy D Roberts
  • Fredrik Johansen

    She completely fails to mention that most of the people who pirated the show, were situated in all kinds of different countries where the show wasn’t aired on any channel, and thus whether or not they pirated the show had absolutely no effect on the ratings. She even claims there was a “legitimate download for each episode was available the following day” when she knows perfectly well that those downloads were limited by region, and millions of people could not pay to see the show even if they tried. This is such stereotypical arrogant American attitude, it’s rather revolting. She takes for granted that everyone on the internet must be American, because to her, the world consists only of America. Blah.

    • Sam Bowman

      Exactly this. You took the words right out of my mouth 🙂

      • VTTM

        Touché! We live in a globalized world – it’s not only the US. Make things available everywhere legally and we might start fighting piracy.

    • BloodyDisgusted

      If they were truly interested in supporting a show they claim to love, they could’ve accessed the U.S. iTunes store quite easily. But streaming or torrenting is easy and free. I frequently do it with the U.K. iTunes store for films that only have distribution in the U.K, recently for the Frightfest releases and Clown.

      • Fredrik Johansen

        That’s such a nonsensical argument.

        First of all, many people have no idea how to do this, and it is far from as simple as you claim. It might be easy for me and you, but it’s still dissuading loads of less technically apt people from seeing the show.

        Secondly, the blocking is put there for a reason, and that is to disable people from watching it. When you argue that you could support the show by circumventing the blockade which distributors have put there on purpose, you’re actually encouraging people to get the show illegally, which is no better or worse than torrenting it.

        And third: Torrenting is much easier than hopping these geo-fences, and often you can also get the show in better quality through torrents. If distributors really want to sell their product, they are not doing themselves any favors by pushing a solution which is more difficult to use and in lower quality. People will always look for the best and easiest way to make a purchase, and retailers are only spitting potential customers in their faces by trying to sell them something they know is crap.

        • alwayswipetwice

          I pretty sure any determined fan can and will get a hold of whatever their fandom may be. Physical media is still alive and available to anyone anywhere.

          • Fredrik Johansen

            That’s another backwards argument. Physical media is just barely hanging on to a string of life, and many people don’t even own a dvd-player anymore. Bluray was already outdated when it was released, and there’s a reason why it was never a big success. Additionally, physical media always takes a long time to get released, and nobody wants to wait a year to see something, when the technology that enables them to see it immediately is already here.

            This “war on piracy” is nothing but a way for lawyers to get rich, even though they have never been behind or in front of a camera of any kind, and have absolutely no involvement with the actual production of media. They contribute nothing else than threats, illicit extortion, political bribes and spreading malice through pursuit of the entertainment industry’s biggest customers.

            If distributors really wanted to get rid of piracy, the solution is incredibly simple: Give customers a fast, easy to use, legal download alternative, with a complete library in high quality that can compete with what you get on any torrent site, and customers will be running for their wallets. Studies have shown time and time again that the people who use torrents, are also the people who spend most money on entertainment, which proves that these people all actually WANT to pay, if given a chance.

          • alwayswipetwice

            I’ll wait as long as I have to in order to support something I’m a fan of. Otherwise I guess I won’t see it until it gets a deal with a streaming service. Gotta give yourself something to live for 😉

        • BloodyDisgusted

          Non-sensical? Not really, considering it’s a legal and supported alternative for many people especially when a distributor doesn’t have the means to reach a global audience. Ever hear of importing? Maybe more should invest in a region free blu-ray player, they do wonders and those aren’t illegal either. Because you know, generating revenue is better than stealing copyrighted material. In the end it’s all about the sense of entitlement many have and instead of seeking out ways to consume the media they want legally, it’s easier (and free) for them to just steal it. It’s never going to change and it’s the consumers fault, just my opinion.

          • Fredrik Johansen

            So people should invest in expensive region free players of physical media, because the industry has purposely put up walls that do nothing else than stop their customers from watching their media? Where is the logic in that?

            Also, physical media is just barely hanging on to a string of life, and many people don’t even own a dvd-player anymore. Bluray was already outdated when it was released, and there’s a reason why it was never a big success. Additionally, any physical media always takes a long time to get released, and nobody wants to wait a year to see something, when the technology that enables them to see it immediately is already here.

            This “war on piracy” is nothing but a way for lawyers to get rich, even though they have never been behind or in front of a camera of any kind, and have absolutely no involvement with the actual production of media. They contribute nothing else than threats, illicit extortion, political bribes and spreading malice through pursuit of the entertainment industry’s biggest customers.

            And the American Supreme Court has declared that piracy should NOT be considered stealing, so that is officially deemed an outdated and invalid argument, which even the MPAA has abandoned.

            If distributors really wanted to get rid of piracy, the solution is incredibly simple: Give customers a fast, easy to use, legal download alternative, with a complete library in high quality that can compete with what you get on any torrent site, and customers will be running for their wallets. Studies have shown time and time again that the people who use torrents, are also the people who spend most money on entertainment, which proves that these people all actually WANT to pay, if only given a chance.

          • BloodyDisgusted

            While you make some interesting points, you’re not saying anything new. Everyone knows that the current distribution model has its flaws and it needs to be changed. All I mentioned were a couple of basic alternatives that people could seek out without complaint from either side.

            Everyones finanical situation is different and people can’t afford everything they want. Region free players aren’t absurdly expensive and they remain a logical alternative for many who chose to support the things they enjoy regardless of region.

            Physical media (not just for collectors) is still very important especially while comparing it to the flaws of the digital age. Many people do not have a strong enough internet connection for streaming services. People have many different options and they should explore them rather than trying to fulfil their most basic wants.

            The war on piracy is many different things, perhaps even some of the things you mentioned. Still, someone deserves to have their work protected and people shouldn’t be able to feel comfortable with seeking out illegal alternatives without facing some sort of consequences.

            As for these studies you mention, I have already mentioned a couple of alternative methods which exist. People willingly choose to not seek them out, despite them being painfully simple. They ARE given a chance if they WANT to pay.

          • Fredrik Johansen

            The whole war on piracy is based on the lie that it is all about making sure artists gets paid, but this is nothing but an excuse for rich lawyers who will stop at nothing to steal money from the very same people they are supposed to represent, while attacking all the people who actually spend most money on entertainment. In fact, more and more artists are speaking out against the actions of the MPAA, and said they feel terrible for being used to legitimize the awful things that are being done in their name.

            As for the legal alternatives that are out there, every single one of them has a self inflicted limitation that makes it at best unattractive, at worst unusable, to a large group of their potential customers. Whether it’s by region blocking, by only providing streaming, only supplying a very small library, by delivering in lower quality than what is otherwise available, or by blocking content from being played on your secondary monitor, there are tons of limitations that are stopping consumers from enjoying content which they WANT to pay for. Just last week I bought a film on iTunes, and had to jump through so many hoops to be able to play it in HD on my home projector, that it took me more hours making it work, than it took watching the actual film.

            And while MPAA and the likes always likes to excuse the face that there is no film-equivalent to spotify by pointing out that the copyrights are much more complicated with movies than with music, they always forget to mention who it is that has worked for decades with making this copyright so complicated in the first place. Namely, themselves.

            These people should receive no sympathy what so ever, and it is every film lover’s prerogative to show their disdain with the unlawful actions being carried out by the MPAA, by boycotting the lackluster legal alternatives that are being provided, so that it can encourage the development of a decent service which allows people to pay for what they want to watch.

  • blueskythis

    The reasons against illegal download are compelling but there are simpler reasons why Hannibal was cancelled. It was to highbrow, arty and niche to cross the line, a fucking shame as I loved it. I loved it so much I went and bought it on blu-ray as I do all my favourite crap.

    Here’s why Amazon didn’t pick it up for example…

    Amazon Studios chief Roy Price told reporters that he and Amazon were not interested in investing in a show that they do not believe has the potential to be a signature hit.

    “We’re not in the programming business. In an on-demand world, that show doesn’t demand [renewal],” said Price, according to Variety. “That show that would get you from 8:30 to 9 — a goodish show. That has no value to us if it’s not going to be [someone’s] favorite show.”

    Amazon TV comedy head Joe Lewis added, “None of us are up here trying to make anyone’s third-favorite show.”

    Amazon had previously seemed the logical destination for a continuation of the cult favorite series. However, “Hannibal” creator Bryan Fuller alerted fans that the web distributor had passed on the show last month.

  • Chris Thrasher

    Because of piracy. Why do I find that to be just a convenient excuse?

  • This is revisionist history at best, and this coming from someone who bought episodes of the show off Amazon Video. The show was exclusively available on Amazon Prime for streaming its first season, whereas, most other NBC shows are on Hulu. Because of that, I didnt check the show out until I eventually got Prime near the end of its second season. When Hulu finally did add it, it was too little too late for me to get invested since it was already cancelled. The mistake was givign amazon the exclusive and creating the piracy market for it

  • Silent Bob

    There’s a simple solution to this. Make the show more available. When you air it on TV, air it online. Don’t block it by region, TV station or any of that stuff. Adapt to the viewing habits of the modern world, and shows will get a lot less pirated.

    • PsychoMantis18

      Common sense right here.

  • Justin McGill

    And this pirating thing haven’t killed.. Game of Thrones or Walking Dead because…. why exactly? Sorry not buying their argument. This show was mismanaged by NBC and never caught the numbers it should have.

    • RidleyScott

      I just took the biggest shit.

      • AdamX

        Alien Defecation

  • Stoibs

    I’m kind of on both sides of this debate. Listen, I watched several Hannibal episodes in less than legal ways. I was pretty new to how shows aired on official sites or HULU when this show first started. On the other side, I just don’t feel that companies advertise the alternatives enough. I also own all the soundtracks that I legally purchased and I own every season on blur ray. I mean I own the making of book. I watched nearly every episode on cable, but sometimes I have other things going on. My point is that even people like myself that are huge fans, that purchased basically every item this show made available, we were and still are not properly educated or motivated to do it all the “right” way. Hannibal was not cancelled because of downloads. Hannibal was canceled because it was the wrong type of show for the wrong network.

  • Freddy D Roberts
  • Werewolf

    So piracy only kills the GOOD network shows. Of all the turds we’ve wished piracy would kill it had to take Hannibal. What a pisser.

  • Freddy D Roberts

    ..

  • jurgmandr

    Hannibal got cancelled because NBC hates anything that approaches decent television. Same thing happened to Constantine ;_:

  • James Allard

    Let me see if I follow this line of reasoning: the four shows that were pirated more than Hannibal are… also gone. Correct? If not, then she needs to head to her proctologist. Her head needs to be dislodged.

    • Brett Wolfe

      Yes, what are those other four shows? I would really like to know.

      • Aaron

        Game of Thrones,Walking Dead, Big Bang Theory, and Arrow…however, according to this site:
        https://torrentfreak.com/game-of-thrones-most-pirated-tv-show-of-2015/
        Hannibal isn’t even the top 10. GOT and TWD are almost always breaking ratings records.

        Almost as dumb as blaming the leak for Expendables 3 flopping. It flopped because it was PG-13 and well, the movie was shit.

      • Mr.347

        I know “Game of Thrones” is number one. Their producers used it as a marketing ploy. I.e. “We are the most pirated and still generate HUGE numbers!”

    • Captain Spaulding

      Hannibal wasn’t available to most of the world to legally obtain so what did they expect? Very few counties can even use Amazon Prime.

  • Captain Spaulding

    “Hannibal” Was Cancelled Partly Due to Online Piracy

    What a load of rubbish.

  • CelticBull

    I dare to say: Most pirated downloads are from countries outside of the US, that have to wait days/ weeks to see the episodes.
    With all the social media going on these days, it’s impossible to avoid spoilers for more than a day or two.
    Walking Dead/ Fear the Walking Dead are the only shows, that are available in Germany the very next day on Pay TV/ Amazon Prime (and you can choose to watch the original English version).
    Other shows, like Penny Dreadful, are available within a week on Netflix, because they get dubbed first. I can’t avoid spoilers for a week without staying off Twitter the entire time, so I usually watch a pirated episode the next morning and re-watch it when it appears on Netflix.
    Then there are shows like X-Files, that don’t air for several weeks and eventually show on the telly, but only as a dubbed version.

    As long as this won’t change, there’ll always be heavy pirating.
    Take a look at Amazon’s and Netflix’s shows, TV execs, you don’t see those on pirate sites very often, do you?

  • David Carr

    Also it got unwatchable. Turgid dialogue led to bad acting, especially Gilian Anderson’s, and the show became a laughing stock worthy of MST3K. I’m glad it ended, freeing up Mads Mikkelsen for better roles. As long as Gillian doesn’t play aristocrats or people with British accents, she’s fine.

    • alwayswipetwice

      Actors don’t need to have their shows cancelled in order to do other things too.

  • wehoaks

    Ahh yes, every pirate posting here lays responsibility and blame at every single entity they can think of while conveniently forgetting one main ingredient in the problem: themselves.

    • James Allard

      Ah, no: what are the four other shows that were downloaded more, and are they still on the air? Also: once it went on NBC, well, when did NBC become a pay-for-view network.

      • wehoaks

        Thanks for proving my point.

        • James Allard

          What point? I am not saying I pirate anything if that was the point you thought I was making.

          • wehoaks

            You’re just one of those super passionate pro piracy non pirates? Got it.

            Thanks for proving my point.

  • Jeremy Stewart

    I think there are more variables for Hannibal being cancelled, and I don’t think it’s a clear cut case of piracy, The first being that I don’t think NBC was the best network for the show considering its grotesque subject matter. The second reason being that the show itself, while I love it, kind of shot itself in the foot by being another “killer of the week” type show in its the first season, and was pretty boring at the beginning of Season 3. Another reason I can think of is that some of the acting was pretty bad, like Gillian Anderson and Michael Pitt. Also, Mads Mikkelsen’s voice was hard to hear at times. Sounded like he was mumbling a lot. I had to watch the show with subtitles on to understand him even when I was wearing headphones and had the sound cranked. One last thing I’ll mention is that the commercials KILLED the pacing of the show at times and just ruined my mood while watching it. They took me out of the zone. I think if this show was on, say HBO, it’d have better ratings and still be going on.

  • Jeffrey Itterly

    I don’t get it? The show was on NBC which is readily available to everyone with or without cable? Outside the US viewing makes that big of a difference?

    • Captain Spaulding

      They also locked it amazon prime which only certain countries can get and also locking out most of the world to be able to legally stream it. They’re blaming pirating yet most of the people who pirated it couldn’t even legally pay them if they wanted to and this doesn’t count as lost revenue so they are full of it in that regard.When you give people illegally streaming it or torrenting it as the only means to watch it then guess what? They’re going to pirate it.And its pretty naive to think people should wait several months after a season ends to import the blu-ray/dvd.I myself pirated each season but then bought it on blu-ray to say thanks for a great series but its a pity they didn’t want my money initially as i was more than happy to pay for it.Blame the stupid companies and not the people illegally downloading it.

      • wehoaks

        Bahahahahaha you’re cute. Earlier you said you couldn’t afford the show now you say you bought it as a thank you after torrenting it. Bahahahahahahaha adorable.

        • Captain Spaulding

          “Cute” Seems to be a word you use alot which is kinda “Cute” i guess.And saying i couldn’t afford it?you’re clearly making things up now…how “adorable”

          • wehoaks

            “I couldn’t spend the money… I can’t afford… I myself pirated each season but then bought it on blu-ray to say thanks for a great series…”

            Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahavahavavahavhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

          • Captain Spaulding

            If you read my comment i said and i quote “I couldn’t spend the money even if i wanted to” meaning the series was literally unavailable for me to purchase legally.So to watch hannibal i had to pirate it plain and simple.

          • wehoaks

            “I couldn’t spend the money… I can’t afford… I myself pirated each season but then bought it on blu-ray to say thanks for a great series…”

            Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahavahavavahavhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

          • Captain Spaulding

            “I couldn’t spend the money… I can’t afford… I myself pirated each season but then bought it on blu-ray to say thanks for a great series…”

            Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

            Look mom i copy pasta on teh interwebs.

          • wehoaks

            “Play victim first then tell people you bought the blu ray after. And say as a thank you. They’ll totally believe that clear crock of shit.”

            “I couldn’t spend the money… I can’t afford… I myself pirated each season but then bought it on blu-ray to say thanks for a great series…”

            Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahavahavavahavhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

          • Captain Spaulding

            Here you go i even upvoted your copy pasta to save you logging into another account.

          • wehoaks

            “Play victim first then tell people you bought the blu ray after. And say as a thank you. They’ll totally believe that clear crock of shit.”

            “I couldn’t spend the money… I can’t afford… I myself pirated each season but then bought it on blu-ray to say thanks for a great series…”

            Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahavahavavahavhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahagahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

      • RidleyScott

        “Here’s a crumb for you Mr. Fuller.”

        Ahahahahahahaaha you’re a broke ass and you’re a thief. Yikes.

        • Captain Spaulding

          Broke? Quite the opposite actually, Try again.

          • RidleyScott

            No one who likes Rob Zombie or who’s typed like you have is anything but broke. My apologies.

          • Captain Spaulding

            Nice deflection to attack my typing cause you have no argument just like your boyfriend below. I couldn’t give a fuck how i type while not on my Pc.

  • alwayswipetwice

    It also says that every five illegal downloads equals a loss in a sale. That last part – “loss in a sale”. Take that loss and multiply it times the total amount pirated and then factor that into how that affects the crew members, whom are seen as expendable by studios.

  • Jesus…how much were companies paying for those ad breaks on NBC.com? Couple of million people miss out on watching the newest T-Mobile spots, and an entire production goes under? There have to be many other factors involved here – including the over-emphasis by networks and studios trying to silo every microsecond of content into branded sites, placing undue burden on viewers.

  • Wes Draven

    I rented the first season of Hannibal from Family Video when I first started watching it, … then, I bought the first three seasons from Wal-Mart after it was canceled. In other words, I didn’t pirate it, but also did nothing to help them at all.

  • alwayswipetwice

    Lol, all of those Expendables movies are shit.

  • macguffin54

    I don’t understand how pirating affects anyone (TV-wise). If you are not a Nielsen family, your viewing is irrelevant. Watch, don’t watch. Download, don’t download. It makes no difference. If, however, they updated the way they measured viewership, and with the set-top boxes they have now and everything linked to the Internet, it would be easy, then piracy would matter. How hard would it be to measure viewership using cable box and satellite receiver data? It wouldn’t be perfect, but it would be far more accurate than having one Nielsen family equaling a million people, or whatever it is.

    • Wes Draven

      Well, I mean, the viewership helps them attract advertisers, a main-source of revenue, and if everyone is pirating, then, that also means they aren’t buying the DVDs or Blu-Rays either.

  • RidleyScott

    Give the gift of THANK YOU by purchasing your favorite stolen show today!

  • alwayswipetwice

    Ultimately, none of these statistics, either for or against piracy, seem to take into account the nuance of the issue, which is that piracy disproportionately affects smaller, independent productions. So it seems illogical to group all movies/shows into one category when some are affected differently than others. This was always what I got hung up on – the fallacy that high-grossing movies aren’t affected.

    But the bottom line as I now see it: Everyone should be expected to pay for whatever media they use, not only because piracy is theft, but because there isn’t a single logical excuse as to why someone would need to pirate something.

    • snaxmaster

      Couldn’t disagree more.

      • alwayswipetwice

        Then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I hope anyone who’s been following our exchange though will note that you’re not necessarily reflective of all pirates. The issue isn’t a lost cause.

        Even though we’ve reached a stalemate, I’m at least glad we’ve been able to do it in a civil manner (which in itself feels like we’ve broken new ground on this site).

        • snaxmaster

          That’s good because I don’t pirate, I just think the movie, game, TV and music industry is over exaggerating their loses and blaming their failures on outside sources. Period.

          • alwayswipetwice

            Sure, they could be exaggerating. They’re execs who will never face the same struggles as the ones that slave to make them rich, so they don’t exactly have the same perspective, but I can’t conclude anything based on that. What I do know is that there are small and micro-budget films that are most certainly affected by piracy – especially within our own horror community. So in keeping things relevant to why we’re on Bloody-Disgusting to begin with – if we’re not going to support the genre, then no one will. For anyone to shamelessly boast about pirating horror films on this site (especially independent ones) just seems disrespectful.

            In the end, it feels like we’re trying to solve a puzzle that we each only have one piece to. Between reading every single comment on here and taking the rational arguments to heart, to reading news articles, to reading statistics (some of which have no sources) – I’m as fucking confused as ever. What I do know though is piracy is theft, and I can’t think of a rational argument to justify stealing something that’s not necessary for my survival. So I’m just going to pay for whatever it is I want to watch. I’ve always paid for 99% of everything I’ve ever watched anyways, so that 1% won’t break me.

            People will do what they do. Some will be changed by rational arguments, some will remain unchanged by irrational arguments. I’m pretty spent and don’t know what to say anymore. I feel like everything that can possibly be said on the matter has been said. I’d rather just go back to talking about horror stuff.

          • snaxmaster

            I can’t really argue with ya there.

  • 1000

    Take the situation, say, here in Australia. The only legitimate Hannibal fans had was “Foxtel” here. It’s around $130 a month for a proper, fulsome service. So if anyone in Australia wanted to watch Hannibal, they only had one easy, clear choice – pay through the nose for a very expensive cable service, or be smart enough to divery geo-blocking for Amazon Prime.

  • micrappoogle

    The US like to blame two things. Putin and Piracy. In this case, it’s privacy.

  • Lexy Nesbitt

    Cable TV providers need to offer reasonable rates. They’re not even trying to be competitive because they have a monopoly. Small wonder that people look for other sources of entertainment.

    • True – I don’t want a cable bill and avoid it, but I do subscribe to Netflix and Hulu. I think more and more people will follow digital viewing instead of cable monopolies. And I have no idea what they mean by “download the next day” – where was this available at? They probably mean the on demand cable I’m thinking.

  • Brett

    So what were the four shows above it on the list and how do they do? Because my bet it they are not shows that got cancelled, even though they probably had MANY more illegal downloads. “Hannibal” was essentially a monster created by NBC in that they allowed Fuller to go full on crazy and let him do his thing. It was brilliant, but too good for network TV. It couldn’t survive. Neither would “Breaking Bad” or “Mad Men” or any other prestige show from the last decade or so. I am surprised that nobody has picked it up for more seasons – at least Netflix or someone. And once it hits the Clarice Starling story line, the ratings would go through the roof.

  • Benjamin Priest

    Well, glad I bought the blu-rays for seasons 1 & 2..

  • Mathew Lisett

    correct me if im wrong but wasnt this “available online for download after it aired” was it only available to the states? and didnt you have to be in the states even if you had to pay.

    • Jennifer Saylor

      right and then if you had cable or satellite you could watch them by season 3 on NBC’s “on demand”.

      • Mathew Lisett

        again theres the same issue, nbc’s on demand wont allow anybody in the uk etc to view content weither its free or paid for. and i believe the uk only gets satellite not cable and even then it wouldnt appear on the uk satellite channels for a period of time ie copyright monopoly.

  • Corey Hutton

    Yes 2 million people, like me, Watched it from Pirate sites. I and most of the those 2 million don’t live in the US (Thank God). SO blaming us is fucking stupid and just an excuse to make themselves feel better. Open up sites like NBC Worldwide and fuck a duck if they wouldn’t see an insane amount of views on their sites. fucking idiots.

    • FadedLineVigil

      Wow EVERY one of your posts on EVERY story is ultra negative. You seem like a really angry individual. I hope things improve in your life.

    • 1Hoss

      Just shut up and thank us for keeping you safe no matter where you are.

  • Jennifer Saylor

    I feel this was a really bad excuse, so now your blaming the fans?? Also many of these same viewers bought the DVD’s as they became available in their countries.

  • InvisiGhost

    Piracy is always the go-to response for failed shows/movies..trust me, if the movie or show is good enough people will pay for it, even if they pirated it..Game of Thrones,The Walking Dead, and The Big Bang Theory are the 3 most pirated shows in that order and they have no problems with the cash flow..I personally loved Hannibal but even admit that this show was not intended for everyone b/c even though I loved the show at times it was way too complicated and drawn out for the expense of great acting..the show was morbidly gruesome as well which kinda limits some audience..Me personally, anytime piracy even gets brought up in the show business I automatically just think there is a deeper story that being hidden..

  • Daniel Anderson

    The go to excuse.

  • Thomas Lohuis

    I think it simply got canceled because Fuller fulfilled his dream in starting a reboot for a new Star Trek series. And therefor, suddenly, didn’t give a shit about Hannibal anymore.

  • Just admit it, people. You don’t quit to piracy. You just may be incompetent or have simply missed something.

  • What is wrong with you?

    show was too spooky for melol couldnt watch it

  • KnightOfTears

    The only thing that failed here was them thinking it was actually worth pirating! I tried my best to like the show, but it was not happening. I am really shocked it made it through three seasons. It’s easier for them to say it was cancelled due to piracy, than to admit the show sucked the sweat off a gnat’s ass. Everybody needs a scapegoat.

  • Martin Ross

    Uh, yeah, that musta been it…

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