Depending on who you ask, there are currently either seven or eight films in Warner Bros. and New Line’s The Conjuring Universe, and that’s because 2019’s The Curse of La Llorona was never actually marketed as being part of the universe, despite having a clear connection to it. So what’s the story there? Is it a Conjuring movie or is it not a Conjuring movie?

Dread Central gets to the bottom of that burning question in a new chat with The Curse of La Llorona director Michael Chaves this week, whose work on that film led to him directing this year’s The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It. That means Chaves is now officially part of The Conjuring Universe, something that he says he could never quite claim prior to this year.

According to Chaves, The Curse of La Llorona is *not* a Conjuring movie.

“The very simple reason [why La Llorona] isn’t [part of The Conjuring Universe is because] it was made without one of the [Conjuring franchise] producers, so technically it can not be fully embraced,” Chaves explained to the site. “That’s the very simple reason. Originally, there was only supposed to be a playful nod [to The Conjuring franchise in La Llorona], by putting The Father in and having the Annabelle flash. But it wasn’t supposed to be marketed that way. The plan was, you would get into it, and then it’s like, ‘Oh my God, they’re connected!’ We weren’t, from the beginning, supposed to be doing that. And that’s why it has this outsider status. But as [the character] La Llorona is an outsider herself, I think it fits.”

He continues, “It’s a tricky situation, I don’t want to give away any trade secrets. The idea was just to have a playful connection [to The Conjuring] because the myth of La Llorona can stand on its own. But James [Wan] was on as a producer, [and] the conversation got started about an Easter Egg. It just kind of got away from itself. People loved that connection. But The Conjuring franchise is created by a team that’s been there since the beginning. It’s not really right to do an unofficial spinoff without the full team.”

“It was supposed to be just a wink and a nod,” Chaves adds, referring to the bits in The Curse of La Llorona that seem to directly connect it to the greater Conjuring Universe. Tony Amendola reprises the role of Father Perez, a character he played in Annabelle, and the doll itself even makes a cameo appearance as part of a flashback story being told by Father Perez.

Connections to the Conjuring Universe, without question, though it sounds like the film isn’t *officially* part of the franchise even if it *technically* is. And that brings us right back to the original question. Is The Devil Made Me Do It the eighth film in the universe or the seventh?

Well, it probably depends on who you ask.