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Hockey Masks, Machetes and Razor Fingers: The Writers Behind ‘Freddy Vs. Jason’ Tell All!

Freddy Vs. Jason

“I’ve been away from my children for far too long.” – Freddy Krueger

In 2003, that quote couldn’t have rung more true. It had been nearly a decade since everyone’s favorite dream master Freddy Krueger had appeared on the big screen in Wes Craven’s New Nightmare and less than a year since the hockey-masked behemoth Jason Voorhees graced theaters in the underrated Jason X. Both franchises had seemingly worn out their welcome, with New Nightmare grossing a mere $19.7 million in 1994 and Jason X faring even worse with $17 million in 2002. After teasing the icons’ death match in the closing moments of 1993’s disastrous Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday, fans suffered through a 10-year wait while Freddy Vs. Jason sat in development Hell. By now, fans know all to well about the issues that plagued Freddy Vs. Jason during those 10 years, but we here at Bloody Disgusting thought we would reach out to Damian Shannon and Mark Swift, the duo who ended up writing the final version of the Freddy Vs. Jason script that was filmed (they would go on to write the 2009 Friday the 13th remake as well), and dig a little deeper into the production of the film. Some of the questions I asked had been asked before and others are brand new, but we thought it would be a fun way to celebrate Friday the 13th!

So how do you bring two of the most infamous slasher icons together on the big screen? It turns out that the answer wasn’t an easy one. Here’s a little backstory on the production of Freddy Vs. Jason. The idea was first considered by each franchise’s respective studios (New Line Cinema for A Nightmare on Elm Street and Paramount for Friday the 13th) way back in 1987, right after the release of A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors and Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives. Unfortunately, both companies wanted to license the other company’s character without giving up their own, so an agreement was never made. This led to the productions of Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood and A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master in 1988. Plans were abandoned again until the box failure of Friday the 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan in 1989. After that film was released the rights to the franchise reverted back to the original financiers of  the original Friday the 13th (Phil Scuderi, Steve Minasian and Bob Barsamian), who promptly sold them to New Line Cinema so that franchise creator Sean S. Cunningham could begin work on Freddy Vs. Jason.

Unfortunately Cunningham waited too long to get the ball rolling on Freddy Vs. Jason. By the time he was ready to start, Wes Craven decided to return to the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise at that same time, thereby putting a halt on any Freddy Vs. Jason plans. While Craven decided to work on New Nightmare, Cunningham began working on a new Friday the 13th film that would lead into a Freddy Vs. Jason movie so that New Line Cinema would pretty much have to make the film.  As mentioned above, New Nightmare disappointed at the box office and Jason Goes to Hell, while profitable, still earned the second lowest box office gross in the franchise’s history (at the time).  It seemed that the world (and New Line Cinema) was finally ready for Freddy Vs. Jason. Alas, such was not the case.

Freddy Vs. Jason

New Line Cinema would go on to spend roughly $6 million on several unused scripts from over a dozen screenwriters. Tons of ideas were tossed around. From plots that ranged from the implausible (Freddy was once planned to be a camp counselor at Camp Crystal Lake who molested Jason) to the ridiculous (Jason on trial for his crimes), New Line Cinema just couldn’t manage to nail down a premise as to why these two icons of horror would just so happen to be in the same film together. It wasn’t until longtime Nightmare and Friday fans Swift and Shannon produced a treatment that everyone involved, including New Line Cinema Head of Production Michael DeLuca (who also wrote the screenplay for Freddy’s Dead: The Final Nightmare), agreed would work that it looked like Freddy Vs. Jason might actually happen.

DeLuca was Freddy Vs. Jason’s biggest supporter. The problem was that he had so many ideas but didn’t exactly know what to do with them. One rumored idea had the film going the Clue route, filming multiple endings and screening a different one in different theaters so that audiences never knew which ending they were going to see. “Mike may have thought about that version before we came onboard,” Swift and Shannon said, “but we never discussed having multiple endings like that. Personally I think that would have been a terrible idea. It would have sent the message that we didn’t care about the ending and were just looking for an extra cash grab.”

The good news (for fans of the film at least) is that Swift and Shannon’s original pitch to DeLuca is nearly the same film that ended up in theaters (and no, no characters from previous Nightmare or Friday films were present in any of their drafts because they felt those characters would detract from the titular foes’ stories). “We had a very strong take from the beginning on what the movie should be (and what the movie should not be). So [Michael] got the full pitch: characters, story, action set pieces, everything,” Swift and Shannon said. “DeLuca had explored so many different ideas at that point…[that] he was really lost as to where to start. We came from a place where we didn’t want to change their backstories at all; we didn’t want to ‘throw out’ the other movies. We wanted everything to ‘count.’ We pitched what we as fans would want to see. DeLuca loved it, and hired us pretty quickly after the pitch.”

Unfortunately for Swift and Shannon, DeLuca was eventually fired from New Line Cinema before they got deep into pre-production on Freddy Vs. Jason. All of a sudden the film’s biggest supporter was gone, and Swift and Shannon were left to their own devices to get it made. When asked if they were nervous after DeLuca’s departure, they exclaimed “Of course! It was a disaster! You have to understand, this is around the same time that Jason X came out and bombed at the box office. DeLuca had been the champion of that movie, and he was the champion of Freddy Vs. Jason…and now he was gone. We had to re-convince New Line that even developing Freddy Vs. Jason was a good idea, and believe [us], it took some convincing. We had to re-pitch a whole new set of execs, write summary documents about how and why Freddy and Jason were in the same movie and what they were fighting about. We had to do a beat sheet. We gave them a list of rules about things Freddy and Jason should and shouldn’t do. On and on. All this before we even wrote the script.” It almost seems hard to believe that there was a time when a Freddy Vs. Jason movie didn’t seem like a viable business venture, but that was most certainly the case.

New Line Cinema, once known as “The House That Freddy Built,” had lost all confidence in their prize franchise. At the behest of Swift and Shannon, New Line began reaching out to audiences to see if they would even be willing to see Freddy Vs. Jason. According to them, “the studio hired a consultant to test the concept with the public, to see if there was any interest in the movie….they sent teams to malls with a questionnaire. They found that there was indeed some interest, but recommended that it be rated PG-13. When we heard this, we wrote an impassioned email to the head of marketing at the studio, begging him to not only to back the movie, but to keep an R rating.” Thank God for that. Can you imagine a world with a PG-13 Freddy Vs. Jason? It would have marked the first entry in each respective franchise to obtain the rating and most certainly would have shifted the horror genre into a very different direction today. Plus, look at what happened with Alien Vs. Predator

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All of their convincing paid of, and New Line Cinema founder Robert Shaye and production executive Stokely Chafkin gave them the greenlight. Swift and Shannon’s original script was around 120 pages, which would have resulted in a two-hour film. “Most studios like their horror films to be around 90 minutes,” they said, “but we always felt this was an epic matchup that required a little more time. [The studio] disagreed. Subplots and characters were cut and combined at the request of the studio.” The duo worked with Ronny Yu to condense the script, but after some time the studio brought in David S. Goyer (Man of Steel, Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice, The Dark Knight) to trim down the script even more.

The team went through about three different drafts of the script before Goyer arrived on the scene. “David did an excellent job of trimming every ounce of fat from the movie, but he also had to cover up what was cut. So in the end, you had characters explaining the plot to each other, rather than talking like real people, which is a real pet peeve of ours. It made for a shorter movie, but one filled with some hilariously bad dialogue and glaring holes.”

That “hilariously bad dialogue” is perhaps most evident in Lori’s (Monica Keena) now infamous line “Freddy died by fire, Jason by water. How can we use that?” Smith and Shannon defend that particular line though, saying “we will cop to writing that line, but it certainly worked a lot better in the context of the original uncut scene. Moreover, it was clear that this whole conversation took place within a dream. The conversation was longer, and followed dream-logic. But sure, it was a silly line…” It may have been a silly line, but it adds to Keena’s growing repertoire of delivering hilariously random expository dialogue.

Regarding the plot holes, no hole was more glaring than Jason’s fear of water in Freddy Vs. Jason. Fans cried in uproar over the plot decision, since Jason had been submerged in water multiple times throughout the course of the previous 10 Friday the 13th films. Smith and Shannon retorted, saying “The intention was — if Jason has any fear at all — it would be rooted in his drowning. This is what Freddy exposes — Jason’s memory of his childhood at Crystal Lake. However, the way it was shot, it could be interpreted that Jason is afraid of water. After all, he doesn’t cross the water stream, right? But remember, this is taking place in Jason’s psyche. In his dream. Ronny was being symbolic.” This is along the lines of what Swift and Shannon stated in the superb documentary Crystal Lake Memories, though they maintain that their original idea for that particular decision was muddled because of the cuts made to their script.

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It was apparent that the duo was tired of addressing this issue, as they threw a little shade my way regarding the question: “It’s interesting, the casual fan is usually the one who brings up this ‘fear of water’ thing. But the more serious hardcore fans usually get that it’s ‘fear of drowning’ at issue and not water.” Forgive me, guys. I swear I’m not just a casual fan! I’m just not 100% I buy into this theory, but I’ll let bygones be bygones.

One harmless, if obvious plot hole also involved the time it takes the characters to travel from Springwood to Camp Crystal Lake, a trip that should take roughly 8-9 hours. Of course, it’s not fun to see your characters on a road trip for a whole scene, is it? The speed of the trip did not escape Swift and Shannon either, who had the kids driving all night in their original script. “This really bugged us the first time we screened the movie (and Jason got to Springwood pretty quickly in the beginning, too) but hey, what are you going do? They wanted the movie to fly by and boy does it fly!” Again, this was something addressed in Crystal Lake Memories, but I felt like poking the bear and asking the question again.

When asked if there was a particular sequence that they wish hadn’t been cut, the pair recounted an awesome-sounding fight scene in a construction trailer. “One of the kids was trapped inside with Freddy,” they said, “but then Jason was on the outside, stabbing his machete through the thin metal walls, trying to kill everything inside. So then Jason gets in, and our kid is trapped in an enclosed space between Freddy and Jason, who are going at it. The trailer is on wheels, and during the fight, it becomes unmoored, and starts rolling and bouncing down a hill as they continued to fight. It was pretty crazy and would have been spectacular on screen.” Spectacular indeed, but in the essence of time, the scene was cut.

One of the biggest controversies surrounding the production of Freddy Vs. Jason was New Line’s decision to recast Kane Hodder (a fan-favorite Jason who played the hulking monster for Friday the 13th 7-10) with newcomer Ken Kirzinger. “We were as shocked as anyone when Kane wasn’t brought back. After all, Kane played Jason more times than anyone else, and kept the torch of the franchise alive between movies.” While they lamented Hodder’s absence, they also admitted that they were pleased with Kirzinger’s performance.  “We also think Ken did a great job in the role, and we like the fact that there have been many interpretations of Jason Voorhees throughout the years. (Personally, our favorite is Derek Mears, but we’re pretty biased.) It’s a fun thing for fans to debate. But obviously, we feel bad for the fans who fell into the ’no one but Kane’ camp. Our goal was to deliver for the fans, but you can’t make everyone happy.” Truer words were never spoken.

While they may not know exactly why the casting decision was made (“You would have to ask the director and the studio,” they replied), Swift and Shannon were happy to debunk some of the rumors flying around the internet: “No, Kane wasn’t brought back because he didn’t have ‘sympathetic eyes.’ That was a strange rumor that got started because someone wrote that description on a casting sheet. No, Kane wasn’t brought back because he was ‘too precious’ with the character. Kane is a pro, and he would have been great in the role. If I had to take an educated guess, I would say they probably felt that Ken matched up better visually with Robert (Ken is a bit taller) and maybe they saved some money. But again, you’d have to ask them.” That does seem to be the popular theory. Supposedly New Line wanted an actor who would tower over Englund’s already above average 5’10” height.

A similar controversy that emerged after Freddy Vs. Jason‘s release was fan backlash over Kia (Kelly Rowland) calling Freddy Krueger a faggot. As a gay horror fan myself, I was certainly taken aback by the use of the word in the film. It was a puzzling thing to include, considering that the horror genre has a very large gay following. Granted 2003, while not that long ago, was still a very different time. It was more acceptable to use the word then than it is now. Swift and Shannon have denied taking any part in the film’s use of the word, but I thought I would ask again just to see if their answer had changed over the years. It did not, as they repeated: “All we can tell you is…we didn’t write it, and we were really shocked when we heard it in the movie. We complained about it after the first screening, but it was never changed. It’s a real stain on the movie, in our opinion.” It looks like we will never know if it was improvisation on Rowland’s part, the work of some shady film executives or some other mysterious reason.

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After nearly two decades of planning, Freddy Vs. Jason opened on August 15, 2003 with a record-breaking $36.4 million dollars ($47.1 million in 2016 dollars) and would go on to gross $82.6 million domestically ($106.9 million in 2016 dollars). “When it finally came out, and with very little advertising (we didn’t even get billboards), Freddy Vs. Jason had the biggest horror opening of all time.” It was actually the best R-rated horror opening of all time until Swift and Shannon’s next film, Friday the 13th hit theaters in February of 2009 and broke that record.

As much of a moneymaker as Freddy Vs. Jason was, it was not without its detractors. While the film was meant to be a love letter to fans all across the globe (and to some fans it was), there were some who just weren’t happy. A common complaint is that the film doesn’t marry the two franchises together seamlessly, but instead feels like a Friday the 13th film that Freddy just happens to be in (he only gets one kill in the entire movie). Others feel the opposite. “We usually hear from people ‘It’s more of a Nightmare film than a Friday the 13th film,'” they said. “Our answer is that yes, Freddy is the one pulling the strings of the plot. He’s the one in control, manipulating events, and dominates the story. Jason is more of a ‘tool’ in that sense. However, Jason cannot be controlled. As you rightly point out, Jason gets most of the kills. Again, this is rooted in their respective franchises. The Nightmare series has never been about body count, like the Friday series. Therefore it was only natural that Jason would have most of the kills, but Freddy would be driving the story.”

Whether you agree with them or not, you have to admire their passion. These two guys clearly put a lot of thought into this product and aimed to create the best film that they believed these franchises deserved. Since Robert Shaye was (and still is) a part of New Line when A Nightmare on Elm Street was released, it is understandable that he was more of a Freddy supporter. Swift and Shannon believed that they needed to ensure that Jason was given just as much of a spotlight as Freddy was to receive, which was a delicate balancing act. “From the very beginning, we strove for balance,” they said. “You have to fight for this balance and these decisions through every step of the development process. It’s a miracle it came out as balanced as it is, though of course, fans of each character always want their favorite character to have more.” That’s for damn sure, isn’t it? But whether they over-defended Jason and gave him too much to do is up to the viewer to decide.

Some fans even accused Swift and Shannon of painting Mr. Voorhees as a tragic figure (just look at Monica Keena’s interviews in Crystal Lake Memories, though she was probably just joking). A victim of the circumstances, if you will. They are understandably defensive on the subject (you would have to be when going toe-to-toe with Friday and Nightmare fans), exclaiming “How dare you…Jason was never presented as ‘redeemable’ or as an ‘anti-hero.’ The way we portrayed Freddy and Jason in the film was always closely rooted in their respective backstories and mythologies. Freddy was a ‘child killer’. That makes him, at his origin, a victimizer. Jason drowned when the Camp Counselors weren’t watching him. That makes him, at his origin, a victim. Therefore, those identities needed to be carried over into the story, and be at the core of their dynamic. However, that doesn’t mean that Jason is ‘good’ or ‘redeemable’ or even an ‘anti-hero.’ Jason is a remorseless killing machine. But the fact that he has more layers than that only makes him a more interesting character in our eyes.” So Jason may not be a sympathetic figure in their eyes, but he had more emotions to play with when compared to the irredeemable Freddy. Maybe it’s because he couldn’t speak.

The big question on everyone’s mind when they were going to see Freddy Vs. Jason was: “Who would win?” The ending that was used, which New Line Cinema founder Robert Shaye came up with, featured Jason walking out of the lake holding Freddy’s severed head as Freddy winked at the camera before the credits rolled.  Some believe a clear winner was never declared. To that, Swift and Shannon disagree. “We don’t think the ending plays like a stalemate or a copout,” they said. “The intention was always for the ending to be a Rorschach test for fans: Freddy fans would think Freddy won, and Jason fans would think Jason won. Having talked to hundreds of fans since the movie came out, I’d say we were mostly successful in that goal. We loved the idea of fans leaving the theater debating who won, and clearly, that still goes on to this day. But if you ask us? We would say that Jason won the fight, but the war continues. We think it’s the perfect ending, but obviously others may disagree. Again, you can’t make everyone happy.”

Freddy Vs. Jason

In their very first draft, Swift and Shannon had included Pinhead, and while “New Line liked it…[they] didn’t like the idea of having to get the rights.” Other drafts had Freddy and Jason fighting in Hell. “How they got to Hell was something that changed probably a dozen times. In one version, the lake drained, leaving only Freddy’s severed glove at the bottom of the dry lake. Will goes to pick it up, and he gets yanked down (in a nod to the original Nightmare on Elm Street ending). Another: Ronny had an idea about a giant hand rising up out of the lake and pulling Freddy and Jason down. We tried all kinds of things; we wrote a ton of drafts for this movie. But in the end, we lost the idea of Hell altogether. The studio said something that stuck with us, and that’s ‘Hell never looks good onscreen.’ They’re probably right about that. Hell is more powerful in our imagination. When you try to actually shoot it, 9 times out of 10 it looks cheesy. So we have no regrets about not ending up in Hell.”

How about that alternate ending that is on the DVD? “We didn’t write that ending, and we were so happy when test audiences hated it, because we hated it more. To this day, we have no idea what the intention of that scene was. Will is now a killer? Freddy is inside him? It made absolutely no sense to us, and we never stopped complaining about it. Thank you test audiences!”

After Freddy Vs. Jason was released, talk of a sequel was inevitable. 13 years later and we still don’t have one, but there are certainly people who still want it to happen. The big one that people are still talking about to this day is Freddy Vs. Jason Vs. Ash (which was actually incarnated as a comic book). It’s a match that never really made much sense, since Ash’s doesn’t really fit in Freddy’s and Jason’s universe. Still, “the plan was always to make standalone movies with Freddy and Jason if Freddy Vs. Jason was successful, and lo and behold, that’s exactly what they did.” New Line Executive Jeff Katz was the only person at the studio who seemed to be interested in bringing Ash into the mix. Swift and Shannon are adamant that Ash’s inclusion “is not the way [they’d] go with a direct sequel.”

That doesn’t mean a sequel is out of the question. While the pair admits that they have many ideas for a sequel and that they have had general discussions with New Line about them, there just isn’t a need for a sequel at the moment (though one could argue there is never a need for a sequel, but then we wouldn’t have either franchise, would we?). The pair were mum on their ideas though, since there is still a chance that one of them may come to fruition in an actual Freddy Vs. Jason 2. Once thing is for  certain though, and that is that they would “really push for that 2 hour running time.” Call me crazy, but I would love a two-hour Freddy Vs. Jason film!



COMMENTS

123 Comments
  • Creepshow

    Jason X is the disaster. And Jason Goes to Hell is the underrated film. The unrated version of Jason Goes to Hell is the most violent F13th film outta the bunch.

    • I unabashedly love Jason X lol. At least it KNOWS it’s stupid. Jason Goes to Hell, while a fun watch, is still a huge mess. Jason X is very good at what it’s trying to do, JGTH is not.

      • DisqusRaider

        jason x is a fun little watch. clearly they didnt have much of a budget on that movie but they did a good job. ya the space thing was getting played out a lot back then.

      • Lirabelle

        The only way they could have made Jason X better was to have him literally jumping a space shark.

      • shawn lawson

        For shame, Trace. Great article as always.

    • alwayswipetwice

      Sorry bud, but I have to agree with Trace on this one. No doubt, Jason X is a piece of shit, but I always have a blast watching it. And it’s not nearly as shitty as Leprechaun 4, at least (close relatives though). I could never get into JGTH as much as I’ve tried. It’s kinda cool in its own way, but it really takes itself too seriously. And the possession thing I just can’t embrace. It’s more “WTF” than Jason X, imo. Not sure which version I’ve seen of it though, so I’ll give it another go specifically for the unrated cut.

      • Creepshow

        You’re just still upset at my “sand in your shorts” comment, aren’t ya? LOL

        • alwayswipetwice

          ;D
          Love ya, man!

          • Creepshow

            Ditto bud.

      • shawn lawson

        You see the girl just get impaled or split in two? One of the best kills ever. Friday or otherwise.

        • Creepshow

          Let’s not forget “while fuckin”. You have sex…yup, your getting kilt.

      • Uter

        They’re both near the bottom of the Jason barrel. But Part V still stands for me as the absolute worst. It has very few, if any, redeeming qualities. At least X and JGTH were mildly interesting in their absurdity.

        Also, I have to assign some extra credit to JGTH for the Creepshow nod.

    • DisqusRaider

      jason goes to hell is the worst film out of the franchise by 100000000x!!!! i dont care what version you watch that was stupid!

    • shawn lawson

      Thank you! Fuckin love final friday!

      • Creepshow

        Your welcome, my pleasure.

  • DarkBree

    When I watched FvJ for the first time I was 10/11 years old and got sooooo scared. If I was awake Jason would get me, but if I fell asleep Freddy would do it, so I was terrified. And also the movie was so gory that I was shocked. Oh well years have passed and this movie is just a guilty pleasure for me now.

    So, talking about the movie. it could have been so much better, the plot was actually good, they found a nice way for them to meet and to fight each other, It’s sad a lot was cut and the movie showed these cuts. I always got the vibe it was more of a Nightmare movie then a Friday one, I don’t know why but it fits Nightmare franchise better, seems like another sequel to this franchise guest starring Jason! But anyway, like I said, it’s a guilty pleasure!

  • alwayswipetwice

    Meh. I’ve always had a love/hate relationship with FvJ. +1 for Katharine Isabelle, but -1000 for the rest of the cast. And minus points for Kirzinger’s Frankenstein interpretation of Jason. I don’t fully blame the guy though, but rather the filmmakers. That’s just really shitty direction.

  • Jacob

    Everything in the Friday series after part 6 just sorta lost me. 7 and 8 didn’t live up to their potential, 9 felt insanely cheap and bizarre because it was a tribute film that couldn’t reference any of the films, 10 was a bad idea – why would you make an Alien-type movie out of Friday the 13th?

    Freddy vs Jason was a decent attempt but I think it could’ve built up a sequel that would’ve much easily surpassed it – unfortunately it seems the production companies never tried or cared.

    Then there’s the remakes that felt uninspired and again it seemed the people behind them never tried or cared.

    • DisqusRaider

      wow you didnt like 7? i agree on 8 but 7 i thought was a great friday the 13th.

      • Jacob

        It would’ve been good if it was a bit earlier on in the series but after Part 6 it just wasn’t really anything on that level. It was just back to basics even with the telekinesis aspect which wasn’t where the series needed to go, I don’t think.

        Would’ve been best if they could’ve fit Freddy vs. Jason in that slot instead.

        Nevertheless Jason’s look in Part 7 is really cool, I’ll say that much.

        • Kevin Thomas

          7 is one of my favorites but after seeing the footage that could have been as opposed to the footage that was, I feel really cheated out of a truly awesome Friday film.

        • DisqusRaider

          i like 6 a lot also but ya jason looked so awesome in 7.

  • Geno1987

    When it came to the fights and respecting the characters I felt they did a tremendous job, considering the crap we got before with Freddy’s Dead and Jason Goes to Hell. However a horror movie it is not. It felt like non of the main cast took the movie seriously and were always trying to hold back a smirk with each forced line. The blood and gore was cartoony, making scenes that were supposed to seem horrifying funny.
    The story involving Ash would have not been a good idea to take it in. It would have only further dumbed down the mythos and turned it into an action comedy.

  • DisqusRaider

    this movie could have been so much better. it was just ok in my book. #1 Kane should have been Jason #2 that director was totally wrong for the movie. he never even seen one of these movies!! #3 horrible actors! all of them suck! notice none of them really did much since. now you know why. #4 didnt think the story was that interesting. from the other scripts ive seen the story could have been better.

    i could pick at the movie all day but it was just ok but had some cool stuff but they fucked it up! i think if they would have made this movie back in the late 80s that would have been such a better movie.

    • John Connor

      I totally disagree.

      #1 I loved that they cast Jason as a lumbering teddy bear that kills. It was kinda symbolic of the teddy bear that protects you from the nightmare man from getting you in your dreams/nightmares. It was reminiscent of Frankenstein (jason) Meets The Wolf Man (Freddy). The iconography of that lumbering Jason and agile Freddy gave it a Universal Movie Monsters flair.

      #2 The director was perfect for this film. Ronny Yu was the luckiest choice they got. He brought this visual graphic novel to life and with his unique wonderful style. If its true that he didn’t see the films, that’s perfect because he brought this fresh style to the film that still remained true to the core of the characters.

      #3 The actors were lovable, sympathetic, and attractive teens. I loved the cast for this film.

      #4 The story was wonderful and probably the best of all the choices I’ve read about.

      I don’t understand how anyone could hate this movie.

      I followed the development of this film since Jason Goes To Hell came out. I imagined it, downloaded rough drafts of scripts, dreamed about it, etc. I always imagined it would have that dark and gritty tone/look/feel that Jason Goes To Hell had. That early ’90s look. But being that it was 2002, that just wasn’t possible. Sure they could try to emulate that but they would fail. There’s something about eras in film that just can’t be recreated. The type of film stock used at the time combined with the director of photography / cinematographers and style-designers are gone. That film that I imagined will never be made.

      Ronny Yu came along and took this wonderfully refined story for Freddy Vs. Jason and brought this wild graphic novel to living life.

  • Blade4693

    Yeah the “f*****” line now is kind of wild but like you said, back then maybe it wasn’t considered as bad to say ? I was in 5th grade when this movie came out and I know that like everybody in school used that word all the time (Not knowing what it meant and how disgusting it was) That certainly doesn’t make it right but I think like you said, back then I guess it was less bad? Idk it is kind of odd looking back on it.

    Whenever I watch that movie I try to convince myself that it was part of Rowland’s character. She was kind of a b**** in the film after all especially to that one kid (who she later cared for after he stood up to her lol) So yeah, I just try to convince myself that that character was supposed to be a bigoted, bully type character.

    Funny how they played the “hardcore fan” card on you tho. I am a hardcore fan myself and even so, it looked like they were implying that he had a fear of the water…and even if it was a fear of drowning (is there a huge difference?) Jason certainly didn’t have a fear of drowning when he walked out in the middle of the lake in Jason Lives to get Jarvis in the canoe, or hitching a ride on a boat surrounded by water when he took that much needed vacation to Manhattan O_O

    F word aside, I really love FVJ. I am a huge fan of both series and it just felt like a fan service made especially for me lol I still love it to this day. Awesome article dude!

    • It’s interesting, I was in 7th grade when the film came out but I remember when I was in 5th grade I called my friend a faggot, not knowing what it meant (my silly self thought I was saying maggot). Obviously now I know better. I understand your rationalization with Rowland’s character, but I just don’t buy it. I actually really liked her character up until that moment. Then she just died lol.

      • Blade4693

        Yeah man same here, I used the word as a kid just not knowing what on earth it really meant and how disgusting of a word it is.

        Haha I honestly don’t buy it either, that’s just an excuse I tell myself in attempt to make it seem a little less bad lol It’s obviously bs though. I wonder if anyone has ever asked Rowland about it? Surely she would have some idea where it came from be it the script, director or improvisation.

        • We’ll never know!

          • briantoofab

            I long for the day when someone asks Kelly Rowland about it.

          • Phyuck Yu

            Shut up, faggots…

  • Stephen Batchelor

    It’s a shame they didn’t use the Peter Briggs draft for FvJ – so much better then what we eventually got.

    • DisqusRaider

      agreed! hell any other script would have been better.

    • I thought that script was wayyyyy too out there for FvJ. It had some cool ideas that could work retooled for a completely standalone film but all the new mythology introduced to the characters just didn’t didn’t make any sense. Just my opinion of course.

  • Lirabelle

    All I can think now when I watch the scene where Jason walks up to the rave while set on fire is “You’re doing the Lord’s work, Scater McGee.”

  • demoncat_4

    to bad they did not go with pin head included that would have been one horror match of the ages mostly to maybe end up with jason and freddy both debating go after each other still or team up with pinhead who knows maybe for the sequel or jason vs freddy two. jason goes after michel myers with freddy wanting revenge. using michel to gain enough power to go after jason again.

    • DisqusRaider

      would have loved to see that but in the end the studios are cheap! they could have made that happen

  • Hockey Machete

    I always feel bad for these two writers since any mistake that Goyer guy made in the script they have to answer to. As someone who read their original script, I know it was full of gold compared to what was in the movie but I’m glad they got to do the remake to their liking.

    Aside from my grips with Hodder’s absence, Jason’s ridiculous fear of water and the fact he can be put under by a tranquilizer, my only question to them would be why did Freddy have so much advantage in both of his fights with him.

    • Blade4693

      Because they knew Jason would whoop that ass if they didn’t give Freddy some advantages 😉

      • Hockey Machete

        The dream world I can understand but they made Jason too much of an oversized sissy in the real world.

        • Lesnarsaurus Rex

          100% agreed. Jason would’ve ripped Freddy to pieces if he was written correctly. Watch any of the movies from Part 6 onward, and you’ll see how much of a total monster he was. Punching Julias’ head clean off with one strike in Part 8 is enough evidence of that.

          If anything, Jason should’ve been made weaker in the dream world and stronger in the real world, but it was the opposite in the movie for some reason.

          • Hockey Machete

            Exactly. I’ve always said that would be a better dynamic where Freddy calls the shots in the Dream World and Jason does the same in the real world.

            After all, I’ve known Jason to let people hit him just to toy with him starting with Ted White’s portrayal but the way he acted in the real world battle was embarassing to watch.

  • Gravemarkings

    Biggest disappointment about this movie was Katharine Isabelle using a body double for that shower scene.

    • DisqusRaider

      although that body double had it going on 😉

  • Geno1987

    You know if this had been made today, not only would it have been PG 13 but it would have had both characters being in their youths and teaming up with other horror icons for a shared universe to try to ape The Avengers.

  • Adam Clifton

    I’d love a 2 hour sequel as well but… Robert Englund won’t be playing Freddy. That’s a pretty HUGE hurdle to jump over

  • Frank Lloyd Jr.

    Jason’s fear of water, pardon me, fear of drowning in F Vs J is still lame. I guess I’m just a casual fan.

  • silentevil77

    One problem I had is the whole Jason being afraid of water yes he drown as a boy but other movies have shown he has no problem with swimming

  • Flu-Like Symptoms

    Ambitious post. Some random thoughts as I went along:

    Jason X isn’t underrated. It’s a goofy, horribly thrown together shitfest. The minority who like it doesn’t change this. There are some who vehemently defend TCM4 Next Generation and hail it as a great horror film and the best in the franchise. While they’re entitled to their opinions, a ‘rating’ and the philosophies that go into creating the subtext of it’s target being ‘over’ or ‘under’ are based on majority opinion. Both Jason X and TCM4 are thought to be right at the bottom of the toilet. What gives the ratings on both even more merit is the bulk of these opinions come straight from avid fans of each respective franchise.

    New Line was stupid for waiting 10 years to make this movie. They should’ve went straight for it when they acquired the rights to Friday the 13th. There was never a need to waste time (and shit all over the franchise mythology) with Jason Goes to Hell. Teasing it was unnecessary. Fans had already been screaming for it for years and it would’ve been HUGE in 1993.

    Kane Hodder not getting cast was a screwjob and is still the movie’s biggest shortcoming. Whether he’s your favorite Jason or not, he had been carrying the Friday banner for nearly 20 years and deserved the payoff of performing on the grand stage. The Friday fanbase were robbed of their champion and it wasn’t right, no matter how you slice it. And I don’t buy one of the purported excuses I’ve ever heard from anyone on the film about why he was passed over. It was homecooking by New Line execs.

    Rowland’s character used the word faggot simply to insult Freddy by taking a shot at his masculinity. 9x out of 10 the only reason the word is ever used is because it typically generates a stronger reaction than asshole, son of a bitch, mother fucker, etc. Being upset about it over 10 years later and letting it effect your overall view of the movie is a bit petty, IMO. It’s a shame our current society is so fragile and easily effected by words. Not taking a shot at anyone in particular. Just looking at the broad perspective. People need to harden up and stop looking for reasons to fall to their knees and play victim or launch a global protest. They’re words. Harmless.

    How do we get Jason and Freddy in Hell??? Hmm…….I wonder……..THEY WERE ALREADY THERE WHEN THE MOVIE STARTED.

    Why am I not surprised Jeff Katz was the one behind the whole Ash thing. I agree. He has no place in Jason or Freddy’s world, and if he was ever there for any reason, he should be smashed and discarded. Michael Myers and Leatherface are the only two characters that would make perfect sense to bring into a potential sequel. At one time Myers was being discussed, but I’m sure New Line’s financial penises completely retracted at the mere thought of securing him from Dimension. Shame.

    One last thought on Katz; that guy is a pompous dickface who completely soils Crystal Lake Memories with his smug, unfunny bullshit. I had to rip the documentary and cut his ass out of it so I can sit back and enjoy hearing from people who are qualified to be on it.

    Happy Belated Friday the 13th!

    • Severn1020

      Really, Jason goes to hell was shitting all over the mythology? Have you not watched these movies. You (not the writers) are the only one who takes the mythology serious.

      • DisqusRaider

        well jason goes to hell took it one step further but ya these writers were all over the place. nothing really made sense.

      • Flu-Like Symptoms

        Yes (and no, I don’t).

        • Severn1020

          Then your argument over them shitting on the mythology is geared toward all the films. By taking all of these horror movies so seriously we effectively guarantee we get less of them. It’s entertainment. Just like if someone is watching spiderman and they are mad because a bad guy is shooting at spiderman and not running out of bullets. But ok with a man crawling up the side of a building. It’s taken to serious. Unfortunately more people share your opinion because we have only gotten 1 since pluss a Fucking match up and a remake. We can’t get anything original or off key. It’s entertainment and it’s taken to serious. At least jason fans are easier to talk to than star wars fans. Holy fucking god.

          • Flu-Like Symptoms

            I don’t think a person is taking it too seriously if they aren’t entertained by a new studio taking a radically different spin on a character that they’ve already spent 10+ years getting to know and becoming a fan of based on what has been presented over the course of an entire decade.

          • Severn1020

            Opinions vary

          • Flu-Like Symptoms

            Obviously.

          • Severn1020

            That’s what I said

    • Hi! Thank you for your thoughtful input. In regards to the faggot issue though, your comment establishes why the use of the word is such a problem. You say she is using the word to enrage him by taking a shot at his masculinity. Thus, it implies that being gay is emasculating, or that a gay man is somehow less of a man than a straight man, which is not the case. There is a similar issue with calling something “gay” when meaning to say that something is “stupid.” It’s not an issue of needing to harden up or thinking that Rowland’s character didn’t approve of the homosexual lifestyle (to that I could care less). It is just that her character’s use of the word reinforces a stigma that homosexuals have been fighting for a very long time. And when you are gay and have been called that word multiple times in an effort to degrade you, it does sting to hear it in a movie, especially if it’s a movie you like. I’m not one to use the “you’re not gay so you don’t understand” argument, but in this case it seems to be the issue. When you grow up being called that word on a daily basis it is affecting. It’s hateful and it stings. So excuse me for not liking the word. I’ve toughened up plenty in my 27 years of life, but that word still bothers me.

      • Metal-Frank

        The line did seem out of place, since there are no references to make it relevant. If the term was used as some sort of relevance to an earlier written scene, would it still be as offensive? Or if it were used by a character who is an asshole, is it proper to use, as a character developing tool? Just curious of your opinion.

        • The word is offensive no matter what. Does it make it more acceptable when an asshole character says it? I don’t want to say “acceptable,” but it’s more understandable, specifically if the point is to make the audience dislike that character. Kia, in my opinion, was a very likable character in the film. The film seemed to be very “Go Kia!” with that line, and supporting her use of it. It wanted the audience to feel the same way If a film has a villain/asshole character saying it, it would come across more as a condemnation of the usage. Does that make sense?

      • Flu-Like Symptoms

        Have you ever stopped and wondered why the word is still used so prolifically? Just like with the word “nigger” (settle down folks, it’s just an example), it is because it elicits such a strong reaction from their intended targets. As long as they (and you) continue to take such strong offense, it will continue to be used as a verbal weapon. It’s no different than internet trolls. You’re never going to convince them to stop on the grounds of what they’re saying is wrong. Most of them know it’s wrong and they shouldn’t say it. But, it’s your reaction that fuels them. Imagine what would happen if black people stopped getting pissed when anyone other than another black person calls them a nigger. It wouldn’t be fun to the user anymore and they’d stop using it. Same with using the word faggot against gays. Once you stop feeding the trolls, they go away. There’s no other way to defeat them. What’s sad is this would be an extremely easy solution if we didn’t live in such a world where people are constantly encouraged to FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT for what they believe in, etc, and are frequently privy to the nation in an uproar every time someone sneezes out of turn. Imagine if kids were effectively taught to simply turn a blind eye to the ridicule of a close-minded buffoon who is only trolling you to piss you off. I mean shit, when I was growing up, I must’ve heard the Sticks and Stones nursery rhyme a million times, and you know what, eventually it stuck. Kids aren’t taught that anymore. All they see on TV and social media is a war of words between race and sex, demanding acceptance. That’s not helping anything.

        Though I appreciate your discussion, I don’t respect you labeling me as incredibly ignorant because of a comment I made derived completely from personal experience. While it may not be a choice for every gay individual (or the majority), for some, it absolutely is. This is a fact I have personally witnessed several times where certain people willingly crossover either out of pure curiosity or sheer frustration and angst toward the opposite sex, or both. My use of the word you in addressing the lifestyle chosen was presented in a general sense, and I can see how it could’ve been easily interpreted as a commentary toward the entire gay population and for that, my apologies. I should’ve clarified.

        Your bookend comment attempting to diminish what I said about Jason X wasn’t necessary. I wasn’t trying to change your mind. Just elaborating on how the premise of ratings are established. It’s fine if the film is underrated in your view. Not agreeing with the masses is a beautiful thing. But, in this particular case, it doesn’t change the common perception.

        • Overton Green

          As I said in my other post. Only white men argue that everyone else should toughen up. Why don’t you guys actually realize that you don’t own the world. That the world doesn’t revolve around you. That calling people nigger, faggot is offensive and hurtful.

          Those words have history of white male, and societal oppression behind them. Why is it that everyone else must get over something so you guys can continue to be insensitive pigs? Why can’t WASP be the ones to BEND for once. Why is it that everyone else must grow thicker skin so you can continue being idiots?

          Damn the privilege and arrogance of straight white men is beyond frustrating.

        • alwayswipetwice

          Assuming you believe kids (or people in general) can be taught “sticks and stones”, then why shouldn’t they be taught not to use words that disrespect and are used to attack an entire group of people for how they were born?

          The bottom line is this: Everyone has the free will to choose to call someone by any of these slurs. Anyone that chooses to use the handful of words in discussion, after knowing that they disrespect an entire demographic, is simply an uncompromising, unsympathetic piece of shit. There’s people who are compassionate and empathetic, who actually give a shit about other lifeforms and choose to treat them with respect – and then there’s discompassionate sociopaths and narcissists, who only care about themselves. These types of conversations determine who is who.

          • Flu-Like Symptoms

            Interesting take. I don’t necessarily agree with the closing line, but you did answer your own question in the first paragraph.

    • Oh and that’s fine that you feel that way about Jason X. I still love it.

      • Severn1020

        Loved jason x as well. Well until Uber jason. Missed opportunity there. Looked cool though. 3rd best jason kill, face freeze-face smash.

    • WalkingDeadGuy

      As a gay man, take it from me, that word IS offensive. I always find it ironic when a straight man tries to explain why an anti-gay slur isn’t offensive; that’s like a white person explaining to a black person about the context in which why the N-word was used and how they shouldn’t be offended by it.

      • DisqusRaider

        oh im sure it is. dont you think though the more taboo we make words the powerful they become? its just never going to work to try to get rid of words. just makes people want to use them more.

        • Overton Green

          Said by every WASP ever. No the fact are there are words that were created to denigrate and make a group of people feel like less than human.

          Faggot is a word that was used to dehumanize gay men. To make them feel less. The word in the context of the scene is out of place and is cringe worthy. I have always hated and I didn’t like it then, and it’s even worse by today’s standards.

          I find it odd that the only group of people that argue for saying offensive racial slurs or homophobic slurs are white straight men. You don’t see Hispanics arguing why they should be able to use the N-Word, or Asians arguing why they should be able to call someone Spick…it’s always white guys arguing these crazy positions which I find extremely odd.

          • DisqusRaider

            dude you are way off! dehumanizing gay men? why is it when i hear that word its typically a gay men saying it? same with black people i always hear them say nigger. mexicans call each other beaners all the time. hell ive been called cracker more time then i can count. all the time! i think you taking yourself too serious.

            oh sure but blame white straight men. they are always the ones to blame.

            hate is in someones action not silly words someone made up.

            you will never get rid of a word.

      • Hockey Machete

        I know where you’re coming from. When Rowand said that word to Freddy, I just thought to myself: does New Line think the audience is a bunch of immature clowns who are supposed to find that funny?

      • Fufv

        Ha stfu you fucking pansey. They are words. Get over yourself.

  • Simon Allen

    I remember really loving this when it first came out …..i think i was just overjoyed that it actually happened , i watched it again a few weeks back and many of it’s faults were apparent .
    Ultimately i think Ronny Yu was a really poor choice for director but i think in the here and now that wouldn’t happen again if a similar project was made as i believe hollywood has a slightly better understanding of the kind of director that a project like this would need ..
    I’m not keen on Shannon and Swift as screenwriters as i think they write like teenage boys ( no offence to any teenage boys reading ) and their dialogue is truly appalling but i appreciate that at least they seem to be actual fans of the projects they take on .

    • DisqusRaider

      thats about how i was. i was like wow amazing movie when i first saw it. then watched a few times over and was like wtf? i think just the excitement of freddy vs jason was going to draw people in. it was ok but could have been done so much better but the wrong people were in charge of this film. if Wes was involved think we would have got something much better.

      • Simon Allen

        Yep i think the movie would have had a bit more imagination thrown at it .

  • WOLF

    Grown up awake Jason isn’t afraid of water. I’m not sure why people can’t understand that scene. The dream tapped into Jason’s fear as a child before he became what he is….and Freddy pounced. Did you see Jason scared of water during the end fight? Did you see him haul ass out of Crystal Lake at the end with Freddy’s head? Of course not.
    Any problems with the movie are due to Yu in my opinion. Some of these actors needed more direction, but I think language/culture barriers got in the way. He also made Jason way too slow. Jason would swing and miss, and Freddy would nail Jason 5x before Jason could swing again.

    • DisqusRaider

      ill buy that on the water but agreed Yu and the script and the actors all sucked!

    • Overton Green

      Well Jason being to slow was one problem but more so Freddy being WAY to powerful in the real world and being able to take far to much damage. However the pulling Freddy into the “real world” was a huge problem with the movie. They stole that from the first film but left out the part that it actually never happened.

      In the original movie when Nancy pulled Freddy into the “real world” she really didn’t. The entire thing was a dream sequence. Freddy is dead and obviously you can’t pull someone from your dream into the real world.

      Nancy even explained it at the end of the film when she confronted Freddy and figured it out. She said “This is all a dream, none of this is real”…

    • John Connor

      Jason was sent to hell, so he was like a zombie of a zombie. Motherfucker was probably tired from being in hell. He was also injected with tranqs near the end, so that could be another explanation for why he’s slow.

      I fucking loved him being towering and slow. It worked perfectly for the style they were going for.

  • Cappy Tally

    This is great and all but am I the only one who’d like to hear how “Texas Chainsaw 3D” ended up botching its own internal timeline by setting it in a present day that is somehow only 20 years after 1974? I’m dying to know who’s responsible for that hilarious fuck up.

    • Nicolas Caiveau

      Yeah, the TCM timeline is even worse than the Friday the 13th. Each new sequel contradict the previous one and only follow the original movie. But TCM 3D is even more stupid as it’s not even consistent with the first movie !

      • Cappy Tally

        It’s not even consistent with itself!

        • turk

          “Do what you do best, cuz!” Gaaah…I hate that loathsome piece of shit movie.

        • Nicolas Caiveau

          True, a total mess…

    • Overton Green

      The entire franchise is a mess. TCM has always been the most overrated horror franchise. None of the movies have ever followed the previous movie. Even TCM3: Leatherface makes absolutely no sense in context to the original movie or definitely doesn’t have anything to do with TCM2.

      TCM:3D was an abomination, and ones of the weirdest and crazy movies I have ever seen. Talk about a steaming shit pile of a movie. A complete mess if their ever was one.

      The only TCM films that are worth a shit is the original (which I am not a fan of but understand it’s significance in the genre), and the remake and it’s prequel (which were both better than any of the previous films IMO).

  • Severn1020

    Jason goes to hell, kinda stupid but bats shit crazy fun. Why is everybody always complaining a sequel is the same shit diffrent day, then here comes one totally insane and it’s a disaster. Damn lay off that movie.

    • Metal-Frank

      Very well said… I really enjoyed JGTH. IT was crazy gory, and it was something a little different. I’m glad the franchise didn’t continue with the same path, but as a stand alone movie it was fun. I also enjoyed Jason X. I’d love to see Jason go back in time and fight nazi’s. For some reason I think that would be a blast.

      • DisqusRaider

        i guess everyone has a preference but even as a 12yr old watching that i was like WTF? it was different but i dont see how in a good way?

      • Severn1020

        Really dug jason x as well. The remake is the worst. Boring as hell. Watched these movies so much growing up. Love this character.

      • Noel

        Now that would be enjoyable to watch. Jason kills many Nazis, maybe even Hitler!

    • DisqusRaider

      never! that movie was complete shit! the only scenes you need to watch are the 1st and last the rest idk what kind of movie that was? i must say the 1st scene was epic! if the whole movie was like that it would be amazing! and of course the last scene with freddys glove! fucking amazing! everything in between is a load of donkey kong shit! they should release a cool version of that movie. just edit it down to like 5 minutes and it would be good. wow! what a complete load of shit that was! stupid! i want to punch that stupid ass director right in the fucking face for making such garbage! he even talks about how they didnt know what they were doing. thanks movie studios!

      • Severn1020

        That movie had the 2nd best jason kill period. Girl in tent split in two with pike. Can’t understand how anybody who grew up with Jason wasn’t at least happy with the gore. Damn that movie makes me laugh more now than it did then. Creighton Duke,damn and cool as fuck at the same time. Just don’t get it.

        • DisqusRaider

          hell any movie can make a ton of gore doesnt mean its good. a lot of the early friday the 13ths got shredded and edited by the mpaa but still turned out good movies. the whole body jumping thing was just dumb to me.

          • Severn1020

            Didn’t say it was only about gore. And even though I love these movies,they are not good.

          • JP Andrika

            If it would’ve just been Jason the movie could’ve been salvageable. Decent special effects and gore and a cool Diner shootout. Out of the fucking blue you get body swapping bullshit and a goddamn magical Sword.

  • DisqusRaider

    quick story about when i was 12 and my friends all went to go see jason goes to hell. we were all super excited to see this movie. there is 4 of us and we go to get our tickets and the lady at the counter says “maam these kids cant watch this R rated movie by themselves you have to buy a ticket also” my friends mom says “IM NOT WATCHING THAT CRAP!” lol how did she know? 🙂

    in the end they let us in without my friends mom having to buy a ticket. she was really raising hell about it as she should have. i mean what difference would it make that the parent is there when we see violence and nudity?

  • AdamX

    I didn’t hate it. a few things I would’ve done differently like keeping the Pinhead ending and Kane Hodder but all in all it was still Freddy vs Jason and in the end that is kind of what we all wanted. Too bad they couldn’t rangle the big screen idea of the comics though with all the survivors returning for one final showdown though.

  • chien_clean

    Great article.

  • I Am Colossus

    Pinhead would have been cool. Shoudve fought for rights. Dumbasses.

    • They should’ve just gotten Doug Bradley, pins or no pins.

  • Francesco Falciani

    well…i’m among those fans that really want to see a freddy vs jason 2 happen1

    • Dick Pickman

      I don’t think we could get Robert Englund to show up for it. Given that, I say don’t bother. I’m skeptical about another actor being able to pull off that scenario.

  • Stan Below

    Jason X is not underrated. Jason X is overrated. And completely undeserved overrated. This film did not even do anything for the franchise. They changed the set, they removed all the horror and replaced it with vulgar jokes. That’s it.

    And ignoring it, this dog shit from space bother to get a truly strong cult status. I really do not understand this.

    • I really don’t think Jason X has a huge cult following. Most people DO hate it. I’m just not one of them.

      • Overton Green

        Jason X is horrible but I don’t think it’s trying to be good. It’s absolutely ridiculous and camp and I love it because of that. I just laugh non-stop when I watch it because it seriously knows exactly what type of movie it’s trying to be. I personally think from pure enjoyment factor I think it’s a better film then Freddy vs. Jason which is massively overrated, and is pretty terrible from start to finish.

        • alwayswipetwice

          I question whether any of the F13 films are actually “good”? Entertaining – hell yes. But I’m pretty sure that 80’s appeal goes a long way. At the root of it all, they’re pure campiness, which is exactly what Jason X is. I can’t understand how people treat this franchise like it’s Scream or ANOES. I never liked the original F13 and imo, it’s just a mediocre slasher (and much weaker than some of the sequels, or even The Burning). The success of these movies rests on a really simple formula: pacing, interesting kills, campiness, a final girl/character (Tommy broke that trope), and Jason. That’s all there is too it.

          • Overton Green

            Well the Final Chapter is a good film. It’s probably the strongest in the series. I think F13 is weird in that it never actually had a great movie. The original film was bad. Unlike say Halloween which is a classic and has all this critical praise but the sequels have been trash, Friday has always been seen as trash. The original NOES was also considered a great movie and Dream Warriors was critically praised.

            The Friday The 13th franchise has always been seen as trash. The original movie isn’t very good, and I never watch it. I really enjoy many of the sequels for the camp and silliness they are but overall the franchise is weak.

  • Overton Green

    I really enjoyed Freddy vs. Jason when I saw it in the theaters way back when it released. After repeat viewings over the years I like it less and less. The movie is atrocious on so many levels and is one of the worst Freddy or Jason movies in either franchises. The acting is so bad, and the lead girl being one of the worst ever that it’s hard to be invested in anything that’s going on in the film.

    Jason looks the worst he has ever looked in any film. While I am not one of the Kane or Bust people when it comes to his portrayal of Jason I do think the guy that played Jason in FvJ was pretty poor. Jason was this lumbering, and slow downy. I didn’t like the fact they tried to make Jason into this sympathetic character, and a anti-hero either.

    The final fight was also ridiculous. Once out of the dream world Freddy was still taking it to Jason. Jason was so slow he could rarely ever hit Freddy. The entire fight was poorly handled. Freddy beat the crap out of Jason in the dreamworld, and Jason should have really dominated the real world fight but he didn’t.

    This isn’t my bias in favoring one over the other since i am a huge Michael Myers fan and Freddy and Jason are way down my list when it comes to beloved horror icons.

    From the silly “Dark Meat” comments, to the “Faggot” comments by Kelly Rowland which in retrospect are cringe worthy by today’s standards just sets a rather ridiculous tone. Jason is dead and a zombie yet he was knocked out and put to sleep by being injected by some substance?

    The entire movie is just bad…I mean really bad. I would be down to see another Freddy vs. Jason film if the tone was given a more serious weight similar to the way the Friday The 13th remake was handled. Having comedy in a slasher film is fine if the overall tone is handled properly. Freddy vs. Jason is pure camp with bad acting, and ridiculous plot devices. People doing stupid and unthinkable things that no one would do.

    • alwayswipetwice

      Fucking nailed it!

  • Poopsmith McUnty

    this movie has grown on me. the faggot comment used to be funny when i was 15 but does stick out now that I’m older and realize that it’s a slur, but her character WAS kind of a bully … although if the writers didn’t write it so, that’s also probably why it’s so jarring. the atmospheres of Freddy and Jason were pretty spot on i felt. but i wish the gore was more realistic. very hokey.

  • John Connor

    The line about Freddy dying by fire and Jason by water, how can we use that, makes sense. How is that awful dialogue? It’s someone thinking out loud. Wouldn’t you have the same thought?

    Jason being afraid of water is from his nightmares. It doesn’t mean its his fear in the real world. I have nightmares about driving because I have a fear that I’ll wreck, but when I’m awake and actually driving, I have no fear, I’m a pro at it. But its a deep-rooted fear that I’ll wreck and lose everything because I drive so much that the possibility of me wrecking is great. In my subconscious, I’m thinking, how have I not wrecked so many times?

    The things people nitpick and are annoyed by are usually very logical and explainable things that they can’t wrap their head around because they are idiotic fucks that hate their life so they find something to rag on to make them feel superior because a movie is an easy target that won’t talk back just like those kids that get bullied at school because the bully knows they won’t fight back or speak up.

  • John Connor

    The faggot line was simply to hurt Freddy. I see the character saying that to Freddy, the same way I would say it to a homophobic redneck, simply because I know its the slur they would use and I’m throwing it back at them because I know it would hurt them the most because it means so much to them because they practically own the word and throw it around themselves. If I called someone who wasn’t gay and wasn’t homophobic/racist/prejudiced a faggot, they likely wouldn’t care at all. But if I called a homophobic redneck that, they’d be furious because they are usually the ones saying that to actual gay people. They’d rather be caught dead than be called that because they, out of all people, think its the worst thing to be gay, so that would actually hurt them.

    And it was cool in the way that faggot was a term more popular in the 80s (when these slashers were most relevant) and that was kinda a throwback to that.

    Don’t get your tight jeans in a bunch, hipsters.

    See what I did there…?

    • Stan Below

      Why are you so stupid?

    • loder74

      Yeah, I see what you did there; made yourself look like the idiot you likely are.

    • And how would Kia know Freddy Krueger is homophobic?

      • John Connor

        He dresses like one and goes around killing people.

        • Christmas sweaters and killing people = homophobic? Damn, I better hide my Santa hat.

  • Xander Grishchenko

    Amazing article!
    And I wouldn’t mind to see a return match of this legendary duo

  • Christopher Pelton

    There was a script that had Jason as a real serial killer and the Friday movies were based on his crimes. It had some issues but the concept was a lot better than what we got. At least that’s my opinion.

  • LOX TO THE DEATH

    Freddy Vs Jason is just a fuckin mess ……….im not getting into it

    • Stan Below

      I totaly agree.

  • You can say all you want that Jason’s fear was symbolic, but the movie certainly didn’t make that clear. Plus, we’ve never seen “symbolic fear” in any of the other NOES movies.

  • Captain Australi-andow

    Excellent article. I for one have been a fan of both franchises for twenty years, and absolutely adored Freddy vs Jason – I can see the film for what it is, I guess. I’d give up my car for a sequel.

this week in horror

This Week in Horror - August 7, 2017

The hard copy of Friday the 13th: The Game is coming, Sarah Paulson joins M. Night Shyamalan's Glass, and Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark gets a re-release with the original art.

Posted by Bloody Disgusting on Monday, August 7, 2017
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