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[Interview] ‘Bushwick’ Filmmakers On the Film’s Political Inspiration

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The directing duo of Cary Murnion and Jonathan Milott came storming into the scene a few years back with the now way cult classic CootiesCooties is the rare horror-comedy hybrid that actually happens to be equal parts scary and equal parts funny. We called it a relentless riot. Their latest film, Bushwick (read our review from Sundance), takes on a much different tone. This film takes place during a modern civil war — a truly frightening concept given the current political climate.

Murnion and Milott were kind enough to chat with Bloody Disgusting about Bushwick and what it’s like to work as co-directors. Please note that this interview was conducted via email and the duo handled the answers much like they do director duties, as a pair.

Bloody Disgusting: The premise of Bushwick is very relevant to the modern world. Was there one specific event that helped shape the film or was it a combination of things?

Murnion & Milott: This movie was originally inspired by a quote we saw in 2009 from the former governor of Texas, Rick Perry. He “joked” that Texas should secede from the United States. This was when Obama was in office so there was an undercurrent of racism in his statement. We then thought about what would transpire if Texas followed through on this “joke”. We also wanted to explore how it would feel if American military invaded U.S. cities the same way they invaded other countries around the world.

BD: Piggybacking off that first question a bit, how much input on the overall story did you two have as directors? You worked with two wonderful writers in Nick Damici and Graham Reznick. Did they have most of the story fleshed out or was there a lot of collaboration between all parties involved?

M&M: They are indeed both fabulous writers and we were lucky to have them work on this project for us. We had written the story for the film before meeting them, but then they both brought a tremendous amount of new ideas to both the story and the characters when they worked on the script. We then also worked a lot with both Dave Bautista and Brittany Snow on their characters Stupe and Lucy. 

BD: What impact do you hope the film has? When an audience gets up to leave after watching the movie, what do you want them to take away?

M&M: First and foremost we hope people leave feeling that they sat through an exciting, tense, thought provoking experience like none they’ve watched before. We also hope this movie comes across as a cautionary tale for what can happen when people turn to violence instead of peaceful protest. War is never the answer. 

BD: The cast of the film is wonderful. Dave Bautista seems destined to be an action star and in fact if this were the 80’s I think he’d be a lot more popular than he already is. What was the experience like working with him?

M&M: We totally agree! But we think he’s even better than those 80’s action stars – he has a rare combination of strength and vulnerability that those stars didn’t have. He can be indestructible in one scene and completely broken in the next. He’s lived a very unique life that he brings to the characters he plays. Dave is a director’s dream to work with – he’s extremely dedicated and is always looking for new ways to make the movie better. There’s a big scene towards the end of the movie where his character, Stupe, opens up for the first time to Lucy. Dave told us he had a story he wanted Stupe to tell. He told us the general idea of the story but none of the details. So what you see on screen is directly from Dave’s heart and it was the first of three takes. It’s very raw and real, which is very much who Dave is. 

BD: My last question isn’t specific to Buschwick, but just the two of you in general. What is the balance like when directing as a pair? Are their specific tasks each of you handles on every film? Do you mix it up? Both of you just do everything? What is the dynamic like?

M&M: We’ve been working together for over fifteen years so we’re like brothers. We work together on everything we do. We collaborate on a project from start to finish. During the actual shoot we’ll divide up the scenes so that there is one person that the actors and crew can look to for major decisions, but we’ve already worked things out between us in pre-production. It’s so helpful to have someone else to bounce ideas off and to discuss things with. There have been SO many times where we’ve helped each other that it’s hard for us to imagine what it must be like for all of those solo directors out there. 

Bushwick is currently available in select theaters and on VOD.

Chris Coffel is originally from Phoenix, AZ and now resides in Portland, OR. He once scored 26 goals in a game of FIFA. He likes the Phoenix Suns, Paul Simon and 'The 'Burbs.' Oh and cats. He also likes cats.

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Interviews

Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’

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Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep Review - Paul Tremblay AI Horror

Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating. 

“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”

While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists. 

I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.

Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”

The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling. 

Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story. 

“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”

The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential. 

“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.

Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay. 

“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness. 

“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”

So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation. 

“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere. 

Dead but Dreaming of electric sheep

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