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George Takei Shares His Personal Connection to the Horrors of “The Terror: Infamy” [Interview]

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On Monday, the second season of AMC’s The Terror kicked off with a spooky introduction to a supernatural horror plaguing a Japanese-American community during World War II. As with the inaugural season, The Terror: Infamy blends a fictionalized horror story with the true horrors of history. While it centers around Chester Nakayama’s (Derek Mio) treacherous journey, Infamy follows numerous members of the Terminal Island community. Most notable of which is elder Yamato-san, played by veteran actor George Takei, best known for his role as Sulu in Star Trek.

For Takei, who also served as a consultant this season, Infamy is personal. As a Japanese American, he lived in an internment camp during childhood.

“Four years. The extent of World War II. I mean, first of all, it’s irrational to sweep up a group of people just on the basis of race, whether we’re guilty or not. They just rounded us up, 120,000 of us. Then, when the war ended, suddenly we’re okay, and we’re let go,” Takei explained to us. “Equally irrational was to let us go if what they said… they said we’re all potential spies, saboteurs, and fifth columnists, and suddenly the war ends, and we no longer are that threat.”

It’s been my mission in life to raise the awareness of it for the last 50 years. I’ve been speaking at universities all over. We founded a museum called the Japanese American National Museum,” Takei says of activism on the subject and his lack of hesitation in accepting showrunner Alex Woo’s offer to be involved with this series. Because of his commitment to that awareness, Infamy bears a serious level of authenticity. “I worked with the writing team, shared with them my personal experience and what I learned as an adult through my research and my lecturing, and I brought them to the Japanese American National Museum. Dramatic writing involves finding metaphors, symbols, and I thought seeing some of the craftsmanship of the things that people produced, whether they be furniture or decorative elements, or a sculptural art creation, that might inspire them.”

“Then, once we began filming on the set, I was able to authenticate some of the details. I mean, this is a film, and the sweep of the camera won’t catch many details, but the devil is really in the details. For example, the crockery that we had in the mess hall, and the research that the set designers and the costume designers did is really intensive and was very accurate. The recreation of the internment camp built on six and a half acres was amazingly accurate and, for me, it took me back to my five-year-old, six-year-old, seven-year-old days. It was nostalgic for me, because my real memories are that of a child. My knowledge of the internment itself came from my adult studies and talking to various survivors of the internment.”

It’s not just the historical context that’s accurate, but the cultural as well. Specifically, the kaidan. Takei breaks it down, “There’s so much of this show that is little known. The very subject of the internment is little known, but the kaidan genre is centuries old. It’s the telling of ghost tales and it’s the form of old Japanese literature that, in contemporary, modern Japanese cinema, has been interpreted as well. So, the horror tale is an old cultural form. It’s certainly a part of 20th century storytelling in Japanese movies. There are kaidan movies that deal with ghosts, and because the internment story involves immigrants from Japan, they also bring with them the old country customs, beliefs, legends, lores, storytelling, and myths.”

Takei also has a little personal experience with kaidan, “My grandparents did tell me some ghost tales as well as folk tales, but not to the extent of the immigrant generation that’s depicted in The Terror: Infamy. These people lost everything, and the stress of the injustice put stress on marriages, father/son or mother/daughter relationships, and at times like that, the belief in spirits and spirits coming to punish us for whatever evil that we may have done in the past comes into play. I myself didn’t grow up with that kind of belief or superstitions, but I was mindful of that. It didn’t play a big part in my life.”

When asked if Takei felt the supernatural elements make the true horrors of this series easier to digest, he answers, “Oh, no. It intensifies it. These people are immigrants who have their old country myths and beliefs and superstitions, and when they’re being tortured under these incredible circumstances, they’re clinging on to some of that and intensifying their fear and their terror and their uncertainty is drama.”

New episodes of “The Terror: Infamy” air Monday nights on AMC.

Horror journalist, RT Top Critic, and Critics Choice Association member. Has appeared on PBS series' Monstrum, served on the SXSW Midnighter shorts jury, and moderated horror panels for WonderCon, SeriesFest, and Popcorn Frights Film Fest.

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Interviews

Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’

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Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep Review - Paul Tremblay AI Horror

Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating. 

“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”

While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists. 

I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.

Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”

The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling. 

Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story. 

“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”

The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential. 

“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.

Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay. 

“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness. 

“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”

So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation. 

“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere. 

Dead but Dreaming of electric sheep

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