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‘Beau Is Afraid’ – Ari Aster and Joaquin Phoenix on Controlled Chaos and a Monstrous Practical Effect [Interview]

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Beau is Afraid

The latest collaboration between A24 and director Ari Aster (Hereditary, Midsommar), Beau Is Afraid, is available now in wide theatrical release.

The “nightmare comedy” sends its protagonist, Beau (Joaquin Phoenix), on a surreal, genre-bending odyssey through guilt and repression as he tries to make his way to his mother’s house. It’s packed with creativity and endless surprises (our review), including a few that venture into horror.

For the film’s release, Bloody Disgusting spoke with Aster and Phoenix for a roundtable discussion on the film. The pair broke down what it was like filming the chaos and also discussed a surprising practical effect no one will see coming…

The first act of the film introduces Beau at his home, a crumbling apartment on a hectic street filled with bizarre denizens. Aster blocks and directs the chaos with seemingly effortless ease, providing the audience with plenty of sight gags to take in.

Beau is Afraid

Aster and Phoenix behind the scenes/Photo Credit: A24

Aster explains his approach, “I just took a lot of time to build it out and think about what all those details could be, who all those people in the street could be. There was no background actor that was just standing there. They all had very, very specific directives.”

Phoenix adds, “I remember thinking in one sequence, ‘This isn’t enough; we need something else.’ But seriously, I was like, ‘Isn’t there something else?’ I’m running across the street. I feel like there’s one other little piece. They’re like, ‘Well, I could have a gun go off, and you could die.’ It still wasn’t enough.”

“I’m so happy with that. So yeah, it’s a great last-minute addition,” Aster tells Phoenix, then continues, “Yeah, that was a lot of fun. A lot of fun. When you’re shooting, it’s not fun because it’s so stressful, but it was a lot of fun to think about and to build out. No, it was actually fun shooting it. That was fun. That choreography there was, with you running across the street, that was such difficult choreography that I think everybody was very focused that day. The ramps that the camera operator had to run up to go through the window and then down again.”

“Yeah. Really cool,” Phoenix confirms.

Of course, a startling late movie reveal veers straight into nightmare territory. It’s so wild – we won’t spoil it here – that it begged the question if anyone voiced concerns about the choice. 

Aster joked before answering, “People were like, are you sure you want to do this? And I was like, ‘Don’t make me think, just do it,’ and it just ended up there. No, if anything, that’s been in the script from the beginning, and I just never had the heart to even imagine the movie without it. I felt like I owed it to the younger Ari in his early twenties, who was so excited to build that 15-foot [redacted for spoilers] that I had to just do it. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, it’s based on a drawing I did a long time ago. I’ll just say Steve Newburn built that [redacted] because he’s really great. That prosthetic was huge and very hard. It was a puppet more than a prosthetic, but it was a trip to actually be in the room with that thing.

Want to see the 15-foot practical effect in action? Beau Is Afraid is playing in theaters now.

Horror journalist, RT Top Critic, and Critics Choice Association member. Has appeared on PBS series' Monstrum, served on the SXSW Midnighter shorts jury, and moderated horror panels for WonderCon, SeriesFest, and Popcorn Frights Film Fest.

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Interviews

Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’

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Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep Review - Paul Tremblay AI Horror

Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating. 

“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”

While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists. 

I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.

Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”

The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling. 

Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story. 

“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”

The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential. 

“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.

Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay. 

“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness. 

“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”

So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation. 

“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere. 

Dead but Dreaming of electric sheep

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