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How ‘The Conjuring: Last Rites’ Director Michael Chaves Stayed True to the Real-Life Smurl Haunting [Interview]

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Michael Chaves talks The Conjuring: Last Rites
LEIGH JONES as Abner in New Line Cinema’s “CONJURING: LAST RITES,” a Warner Bros. Pictures release.

The Nun II and The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It filmmaker Michael Chaves is back in the director’s seat to close out the main Conjuring franchise as we know it with the final chapter, The Conjuring: Last Rites.

Last Rites, releasing in theaters on September 5, 2025, draws inspiration from the real-life Smurl Family Haunting for a case that sees Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga making their final bow as paranormal investigating couple Ed and Lorraine Warren. Considering they’ll be joined by Mia Tomlinson and Ben Hardy, who portray Ed and Lorraine’s daughter Judy Warren and her boyfriend, Tony Spera, it’s safe to say that this particular haunting gets very personal for the Warrens.

The haunting is also one of the most sensationalized and well-known of the Warrens’ real-life case files. That it’s so well documented, including a 1991 made-for-TV movie, makes it trickier when it comes to keeping audiences on their toes and crafting nightmarish surprises.

When approaching the horror of The Conjuring: Last Rites and the haunting itself, Michael Chaves turned to a primary source on the final chapter’s central case.

Smurl family

(L-R): TILLY WALKER as Carin Smurl, KILA LORD CASSIDY as Heather Smurl, MOLLY CARTWRIGHT as Shannon Smurl, ELLIOT COWAN as Jack Smurl, BEAU GADSON as Dawn Smurl, and REBECCA CALDER as Janet Smurl in New Line Cinema’s “CONJURING: LAST RITES,” a Warner Bros. Pictures release.

With the Smurl case, we actually worked with the Smurl sisters,” Chaves tells Bloody Disgusting. “They came on early on as we were developing the script, into pre-production, then through production. There was a movie called The Haunted, which was based on a book, and it’s funny because that was actually James Wan’s introduction to the Warrens. It was the first time that he learned about the Warrens, and that was actually a movie that [the Smurls] really didn’t like.”

Chaves continues, “They had a lot of issues with it, and I was like, ‘What can I do in telling your story?’ And they said, ‘Don’t make that movie again.’ Not to comment on the filmmaking or any of that, I think that they just didn’t feel like it was true to their story. They don’t feel like it really listened to what they experienced, and that was the big thing with this. In every way possible, we really tried to ground it in their experience and based on things that they had gone through. That really fueled so much of the story.”

One notable difference from the Smurl haunting, however, is the inclusion of an antique mirror tied to the Warrens.

Chaves wants audiences to take note: “This is the Smurl case, but there’s also the mirror. It was not in the Smurl house. That is another case of theirs. That mirror is real. It exists. If you stay to the very end, there’s something there. Obviously, we had to weave that in and then weave in the Warren story. So, it was a kind of juggling act of all those things.”

The Conjuring Last Rites bloody

VERA FARMIGA as Lorraine Warren in New Line Cinema’s “THE CONJURING: LAST RITES,” a Warner Bros. Pictures release.

Beyond honoring the accuracy of the Smurls’ experience, Chaves had the unenviable task of finding new ways to scare audiences for the fourth main installment of the series. The filmmaker looked to the previous films and found a commonality that helped with Last Rites’ scare-crafting.

Chaves explains, “It’s tricky. It’s always a trick. It’s funny because the Conjuring movies also have a certain language and a certain style. I think that there is something in the scares that is very playful, by its nature. And I think that almost the thesis of the DNA of the movie goes back to, honestly, the Clap game. As with everything in the series, it is rooted in that sense of play and that these entities and these darker forces are trying to lure us in with games, and they’re luring us in with toys, like Annabelle being a doll. When you’re doing the scares, I think you’re always trying to push the boundaries a little bit. There’s obviously a lot more blood in this movie than there was in previous Conjuring movies.”

The filmmaker also found scare inspiration from the period itself; Last Rites is set in 1986, just five years after The Devil Made Me Do It.

“So much of the first film is rooted in the horror movies of the ’70s, and in The Changeling and The Exorcist,” Chaves notes. “Obviously, we wanted to return to that and keep that DNA, but I also wanted a little bit of the flavor of the ’80s. We actually shot on C-Series Anamorphic lenses, these great vintage lenses that they used on Poltergeist and on Alien. And so, it kind of had a little bit of the texture of the ’80s. I think also even just the bloody sink, a little bit of a nod to The Shining and Nightmare on Elm Street, and that language. These movies are always referencing other horror movies and horror movies of the period that they live in. So, I think that was always the basis for how we built these scares.

VERA FARMIGA as Lorraine Warren and PATRICK WILSON as Ed Warren in New Line Cinema’s “THE CONJURING: LAST RITES,” a Warner Bros. Pictures release.

Horror journalist, RT Top Critic, and Critics Choice Association member. Has appeared on PBS series' Monstrum, served on the SXSW Midnighter shorts jury, and moderated horror panels for WonderCon, SeriesFest, and Popcorn Frights Film Fest.

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Interviews

Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’

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Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep Review - Paul Tremblay AI Horror

Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating. 

“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”

While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists. 

I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.

Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”

The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling. 

Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story. 

“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”

The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential. 

“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.

Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay. 

“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness. 

“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”

So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation. 

“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere. 

Dead but Dreaming of electric sheep

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