All these years later, Michael Keaton is returning to the role of Bruce Wayne/Batman in Andy Muschietti’s upcoming movie The Flash, a role he helped make famous on the big screen back in 1989 and later 1992 with Tim Burton’s films Batman and Batman Returns. Of course, the role was subsequently passed between several different actors, with Val Kilmer, George Clooney, Christian Bale, and Ben Affleck taking over in the wake of Keaton stepping away.

So why didn’t Keaton reprise the role of Bruce Wayne in 1995’s Batman Forever? Quite simply, it seems, he didn’t agree with director Joel Schumacher‘s lighter, campier vision for the DC Comics franchise. Schumacher brought Batman away from the darkness of Burton’s vision and back to the campy vibe of the original 1960s TV series, which was a no-go for Keaton.

Speaking with In the Envelope: The Actor’s Podcast, Keaton explains the decision.

“I remember one of the things that I walked away going, ‘Oh boy, I can’t do this’. [Schumacher] asked me, ‘I don’t understand why everything has to be so dark and everything so sad,’ and I went, ‘Wait a minute, do you know how this guy got to be Batman? Have you read… I mean, it’s pretty simple,'” Keaton recalls, noting that Schumacher wouldn’t budge on his vision.

On that note, Keaton also explains to the podcast that he was far more interested in Bruce Wayne than Batman, something else that played a role in his decision to move on.

“It was always Bruce Wayne. It was never Batman,” Keaton digs into his own personal idea of the character. “To me, I know the name of the movie is Batman, and it’s hugely iconic and very cool and culturally iconic and because of Tim Burton, artistically iconic. I always knew from the get-go it was Bruce Wayne. That was the secret. I never talked about it. Batman, Batman, Batman does this, and I kept thinking to myself, ‘Y’all are thinking wrong here.’ It’s about Bruce Wayne. Who’s that guy? What kind of person does that? Who becomes that?”

You can listen to In the Envelope’s full chat with Michael Keaton right here. Below, you can revisit Batman Returns with our very own Horror Queers, who recently spent the holidays in Gotham City with special guest Alex Hall.