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[Interview] Ruben Fleischer & Jesse Eisenberg on the ‘Zombieland’ Sequel That Could Have Been

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Ten years. That’s how long it’s been since Ruben Fleischer‘s Zombieland was released in theaters. And now, we are finally getting a sequel after a decade of waiting.

But plans for the film that would eventually become Zombieland: Double Tap (our review) began almost immediately after the first film opened to $24.7 million back in 2009. Screenwriters Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick planned to have the sequel begin the day after the original film ended and see what the next day in Zombieland looked like for Tallahassee (Woody Harrelson), Columbus (Jesse Eisenberg), Wichita (Emma Stone) and Little Rock (Abigail Breslin).

Unfortunately, the duo got busy with other projects (those would be 2013’s Zombieland pilot for Amazon, the action sequel G.I. Joe: Retaliation and 2016’s Deadpool) and were unable to fully commit to a sequel. It soon seemed like Zombieland 2 would never happen. Alas, here we are in 2019 and Zombieland: Double Tap hits theaters this weekend.

Related Article: Jesse Eisenberg Recalls the Troubled Production of Wes Craven’s ‘Cursed’

We had the chance to speak with Eisenberg and director Ruben Fleischer about the film and its development process. Though there are plenty of reasons as to why the film took so long to get made, not much is being said about the plethora of drafts that were written over the last 10 years (because there were quite a few). In the Q&A following the press screening of the film, Fleischer mentioned that there were aspects of the rejected drafts that, by the time they got serious about making the film, just wouldn’t work. After all, a lot has changed in the last 10 years!

Regarding one of the rejected drafts, Fleischer said:

“The theme of [one] script was that zombies had kind of gotten boring and killing zombies had kind of gotten boring. It was meta in that way. It was a commentary on the fact that there’s just too much zombies. We’ve reached peak zombie and so I think the characters ennui was a little bit reflective of [the audience’s] as well. [Zombies] weren’t any kind of real threat and so Tallahassee lost his passion because he just didn’t have the challenge anymore. In the original draft Tallahassee was really excited when he came across [the T-800s], what were then called “Super Zombies”, because it was his reason for living was kind of his spark was lit again.”

The desire to feature zombie fatigue in the film was no doubt in response to the things like AMC’s The Walking Dead (which hadn’t even premiered when the first film was released), its spinoff Fear the Walking Dead and, well, the original Zombieland. It’s no secret that the creatures have been a bit overplayed over the last decade, but while making fun of that fatigue might have made sense in 2013, it would feel old hat in 2019.

Zombieland: Double Tap

This isn’t to say that the rejected drafts were terrible. On the contrary, most of them contained elements that made their way into the sequel. There were even elements from the earlier drafts that Fleischer liked that didn’t make their way into the final product, but rather evolved into different things that wound up working out better than he could have anticipated.

For example, the doppelgängers for Tallahassee and Columbus (played by Luke Wilson and Thomas Middleditch, respectively) are featured prominently in the sequel’s marketing, but the Columbus doppelgänger wasn’t in the original script. Fleischer told us:

“I can say honestly that every draft I put forward to the cast I felt could have been an awesome version of the movie. There was a version at one point with the doppelgängers where it was originally just one of them: Alpha Tallahassee and…he was one-upping everything that Tallahassee was doing. We thought that was such a fun concept that we might as well duplicate it [by adding another doppelgänger] so things evolved I guess over the course of the scripts. And there was a really great action sequence that I remember from the very first draft. The opening was going to be that a golf ball rolls down a thing and knocks over something that swings but anyway…[it was] a Rube Goldberg machine that resulted in the Washington Monument falling on a zombie and then we find Tallahassee and Columbus.”

After approving each draft himself, Fleischer would send it over to his cast to get their thoughts on it. Eisenberg noted that the most important thing to him when reading any of them was that Reese and Wernick’s signature voice was present. That voice is one of the key ingredients that made the first film work so well. That voice is most definitely present in the script that wound up becoming Double Tap. Eisenberg agrees, saying:

“The voice was so clear and it was so great. It was the same writers and…it just treated the characters in a different way. It treated the characters as if they were real emotional people just in this crazy world. You wouldn’t expect that from a movie like this, walking to the monitors where the writers are watching the takes and Rhett Reese is crying because he wrote this scene based on something in his personal life. You wouldn’t watch a movie like this, which is like a big splashy comedy, and think it was derived from the pain that somebody wrote a drama with. So because it’s imbued with that and because it’s derived from that, it has a special quality that transcends the genre.”

Zombieland: Double Tap will be released in theaters nationwide on October 18, 2019.

A journalist for Bloody Disgusting since 2015, Trace writes film reviews and editorials, as well as co-hosts Bloody Disgusting's Horror Queers podcast, which looks at horror films through a queer lens. He has since become dedicated to amplifying queer voices in the horror community, while also injecting his own personal flair into film discourse. Trace lives in Denver, CO with his husband and their two dogs. Find him on Twitter @TracedThurman

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Interviews

Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’

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Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep Review - Paul Tremblay AI Horror

Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating. 

“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”

While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists. 

I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.

Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”

The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling. 

Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story. 

“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”

The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential. 

“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.

Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay. 

“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness. 

“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”

So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation. 

“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere. 

Dead but Dreaming of electric sheep

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