Interviews
‘The Black Phone’ Actors Mason Thames and Madeleine McGraw Are Excited to Star in a Scary Horror Movie [Interview]
Ethan Hawke‘s decisive turn as child-killer The Grabber in Scott Derrickson‘s The Black Phone may terrorize audiences, but Mason Thames and Madeleine McGraw bring the emotional center.
The young actors play siblings Finney and Gwen, whose strong bond remains vital when separated after Finney gets kidnapped and trapped inside the Grabber’s basement.
Ahead of The Black Phone‘s theatrical release on June 24, 2022, Bloody Disgusting spoke with Thames and McGraw about their scene-stealing performances, getting into character, and a love of horror.
Derrickson’s latest marks the feature debut for Thames, which makes the emotional and physical toll of Finney’s arc more impressive.
When asked about the physicality of his role, Mason Thames answered, “Oh, it was super fun. I have a ballet background, so I think I take direction pretty well. All that was just super fun to me: all the stunts and stuff. What Finney goes through is so horrible, but behind the scenes, it was fun to shoot. But some of the emotional scenes were definitely tough.
“I‘m not going to spoil anything, but I remember I had to go to a really dark place to get there, but it was super fun afterward.”

(from left) The Grabber (Ethan Hawke) and Finney Shaw (Mason Thames) in The Black Phone, directed by Scott Derrickson.
Not even Hawke’s terrifying portrayal of the Grabber could dampen Thames’ excitement. The young actor explains, “I mean, just working with Ethan is so incredible. An actor of his caliber, he’s so good at what he does, and he’s the nicest person ever. Seeing how he snaps into the Grabber is something that I will never forget. It is so special to me, and it was so much fun working with him. I remember the second day I worked with him, it was in the basement, and he had the mask on. He said the creepiest line ever. And I tried not to smile because I knew how good he was delivering the line. Scott [Derrickson] had to tell me to stop smiling. He had to tell me that a lot because I was so excited.“
Whereas Finney is the more reserved of the siblings, Gwen is the firecracker. McGraw’s portrayal of the character results in scenes of side-splitting levity and heart-wrenching sadness.
One crowd-pleasing moment sees Gwen mouthing off to adults in a particularly satisfying and humorous way. McGraw knew she was onto something with her performance right away.
“Well, when we were filming that scene after each take, everyone started laughing and when we saw it. Mason and I saw it privately in the theater and started laughing. I’m pretty sure Scott said that was one of his favorite scenes because she does rip them a new one. I think it is one of my favorite scenes, too, because it’s super funny.”

(from left) Terrence Shaw (Jeremy Davies), Detective Wright (E. Roger Mitchell), Gwen Shaw (Madeleine McGraw) and Detective Miller (Troy Rudeseal) in The Black Phone, directed by Scott Derrickson.
Madeleine McGraw also gave insight into her headspace when filming the emotionally charged scene that caught scene partner Jeremy Davies off guard. “Scott told me when we were about to do the first take of that, he said, ‘Do what you think that Gwen would do.’ So, I felt the character, which helped because I could relate to her. Well, I could relate to her in a lot of ways, but I just thought, ‘what would I do in that situation?’ I think it turned out great on camera. I’m so glad that a lot of people are enjoying it.”
Both actors had a blast working on the film, but McGraw found watching it to be a much scarier experience. She explains, “It was way scary. I wasn’t even scared when we were filming. Even though we know what’s going to happen, we still get scared. I love horror things. I love that scared feeling like when your heart drops. I was so excited to get to do this, and I was so happy that I got to do it because my mom doesn’t let me watch a lot of scary things. So, I knew she would have to let me watch it since I was in it.”
For Mason Thames, starring in The Black Phone created a distinctly unique memory for him and his father. He shared his personal experience seeing his film on the big screen. “Something me and my dad do together is we always go to the movies. I got to see it in my local theater, which meant so much to me because I’ve been there since I was 10; we’d go there every weekend. And I got to see it there with my family, which was super special. My dad was crying the whole time. I knew the jump scares were coming, but they still scared me every time.”
Interviews
Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’
Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating.
“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”
While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists.
“I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.“
Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”
The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling.
Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story.
“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”
The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential.
“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.“
Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay.
“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff
Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness.
“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”
So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation.
“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”
Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere.

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