Interviews
‘Black Phone 2’ Draws from Dante’s Inferno For Icy Sequel That Puts Horror Forward [Interview]
Returning director Scott Derrickson (Sinister, V/H/S/85) and co-writer C. Robert Cargill didn’t plan to make sequel Black Phone 2 unless a great idea came along that excited them. That’s when author Joe Hill called.
“He just said, ‘A phone rings, Finney answers, and it’s The Grabber calling from hell,'” Cargill tells Bloody Disgusting.
That was the spark that lit a fire under Derrickson and Cargill, who evolved that idea into a sequel that shifts subgenres completely for a much darker supernatural chiller set against a snowy backdrop. More than lending visual interest, the wintry setting symbolizes the icy core of Dante’s Inferno, fitting considering The Grabber (Ethan Hawke) returns from Hell to torment siblings Finney (Mason Thames) and Gwen (Madeleine McGraw).
“The first starting point for me was, where are we going to set this?” Derrickson says. “I was proud of how the first movie really recreated my experience in North Denver in this working-class neighborhood in 1978. Then, the idea of making it a camp movie, putting it in camp, but not summer camp, winter camp, which I went to as a teenager. And the cold violence of that kind of environment, the Rocky Mountains in winter at night, where it gets down to 60, 70-below, the wind chill factor, and the memories I have of that camp experience, that became very interesting to me because I felt like I hadn’t seen that. We’ve seen lots of summer camp horror. 1982 set winter camp? Interesting.

(from left) Finn (Mason Thames), Ernesto (Miguel Mora) and Gwen (Madeleine McGraw) in Black Phone 2, directed by Scott Derrickson. Photo Credit: Universal Pictures and Blumhouse.
“The whole idea of Hell being a cold place, that all comes from Dante, and the old literature philosophy students, and my love for The Inferno. I just think that the idea of The Grabber being the worst of the worst and coming from the ninth circle of Hell, where people are frozen in ice, is a compelling idea. We quote The Inferno later with, ‘Abandon all hope. You enter here,’ all that, that’s all part of the tapestry of the cold in this movie.“
That The Grabber was sent to Hell mangled and battered, and forced to dispatch his brother Max (James Ransone) as collateral, means the child killer is angrier and more dangerous than ever, especially now that he’s unbound by the mortal coil and supernaturally charged. It’s also a character even more unrecognizable by the layers of burn makeup and the signature mask.
Buried beneath the prosthetics is Hawke channeling his inner Freddy Krueger for the menacing performance. Derrickson confirms Hawke was committed, “Oh, he was there the whole time. He wouldn’t let somebody else do that for him. The only thing he didn’t do was some of his stunts.”

(from left) Ethan Hawke and director Scott Derrickson on the set of Black Phone 2.
Cargill further explains, “Part of his attraction to the first film was that he wanted to work with us again because we all had a great time on Sinister, but he really was like, ‘I have to act in a mask. I don’t get to use my face. It’s only my voice and my hands.’ That excited him as an actor to be able to do the physicality of it. So when it came to the next movie, of course, he wasn’t going to pawn that off onto some stunt guy to wear the mask for him. He wanted to be there and embody The Grabber again. And he did. It would always be cool to walk on set, and there’s Ethan all dressed up, having a blast. Really enjoyed making the movie with us.”
Black Phone 2 is much darker, stylistically and tonally, than its predecessor, with the ’80s analog aesthetic letting Derrickson go harder with the horror. “That’s reflective of the change of a genre, really, Derrickson says. “I think The Black Phone is a supernatural thriller. This is a horror film. I think that’s a coming-of-age, supernatural thriller with middle school kids. This is a high school horror film. The literal changing of genres, in my opinion, merited a significant stylistic shift. They’re made in very, very different ways, and the through-line of the characters, but the look of the movies doesn’t have much in common at all.”

(from left) Gwen (Madeleine McGraw), Mustang (Arianna Rivas) and Ernesto (Miguel Mora) in Black Phone 2, directed by Scott Derrickson. Sabrina Lantos/Universal Pictures and Blumhouse.
Yet, despite the more pronounced horror, Derrickson was much more calculated when it came to the sequel’s body count. “It’s funny because there was some pressure that came to me to kill one of the major characters. I really thought about it, and I got why. One of the studio executives was suggesting it. But I ultimately felt like, if we do this movie right, the experience of it is so immersive, so emotional, and viscerally powerful that that would almost feel, to me, like a pedestrian distraction that could break the spell of what’s happening. Then you’ve got to deal with characters dealing with somebody’s actual death. I just felt like that’s a mistake. This is a different kind of movie.”
It’s a sequel that is also made more unsettling by its score, composed by the director’s son, Atticus Derrickson. Cargill has high praise for the film’s score. “Scott brought a track to me on set when we were shooting one day, and he goes, ‘I just need you to hear this. Just listen to this. This is the track that’s going to happen in this sequence.’ I went off and I listened to it, and I came back and Scott goes, ‘What do you think?’ I was like, ‘I’ve always wanted to make a movie that sounded like this. How did he pull this out of my brain?’ Atticus wanted to make the movie we wanted to make, and you can’t ask for anything better than that.”
Derrickson adds, “He recorded a good six or seven, I think, at least half a dozen tracks before we shot. Those are in the movie. So there are sequences that were really designed to the sonic power of what he wrote. I was visually designing the scenes, listening to it as I shot.”
Black Phone 2 releases in theaters on October 17, 2025.

Interviews
Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’
Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating.
“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”
While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists.
“I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.“
Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”
The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling.
Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story.
“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”
The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential.
“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.“
Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay.
“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff
Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness.
“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”
So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation.
“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”
Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere.

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