Interviews
[Interview] Director Juan Carlos Fresnadillo Talks Fears, Faceless Entities, And ‘Intruders’!
28 Weeks Later director Juan Carlos Fresnadillo returns the silver screen with his first film in over four years, Intruders. The fairly big-budget ($13 million) horror film features an international cast and one bona fide star in actor Clive Owen, however, it has received a fairly lukewarm reception from critics including our very own Mr. Disgusting.
I was able to chat with the Spaniard director during the SXSW Film Festival after the American premiere of Intruders. I came away very impressed by the man, not only for his kind nature, but also for the personal passion he has for his film. BD: There is a definite lack of new mythologies in horror. I really enjoyed that your writers (Nicolas Casariego and Jaime Marques) came up with a brand new idea.
Juan Carlos Fresnadillo (JCF): It’s funny because it’s completely created from the nothing — the monster without the face. It came from the idea to make it a very personal story about those secrets and those mysteries that every single family has and how those secrets become a nightmare. As parents we want to protect our kids from the cruelty of the reality and then, by doing that, you don’t notice that you are creating other monsters that are worse than the reality itself. It came from that place. It came from how secrets became a nightmare in my life.
I remember my childhood. Sometimes I remember the atmosphere of my house like a very unsettling thing. I think it came from some story or some things that I consider very important that my parents didn’t tell me and I think it was a mistake. I’m not blaming them because I probably would have done the same, but I think if you want to create a very healthy environment in your house, you have to be transparent with your kids. And you have to push them and to encourage them to see the reality with love. You can do that with love and you can take care of them, but have them facing the reality, not another reality because that reality may show them something you don’t want them to see. That’s probably one of the worst things as a father you can do. So, thinking of that, I thought okay it will be good if we create this kind of resolution, this kind of thought, in a mystery movie, which combines that journey from the fear into the light.
BD: Are you a parent?
JCF: Nope. It’s funny because I’m thinking a lot about it. Because with this movie I think I made a final step in my therapy because when you’re making the movie, I have the feeling, or the obsession maybe, that you have to put something from you in the movie in order to cure yourself, in order to take advantage of the privilege of getting to make a movie. I use this movie as a personal thing for trying to introduce some light into this kind of dark place that I remember from my childhood. Of how I lived in my house with some kind of strange feeling because there was something that nobody could talk about and I needed to explain that in a very poetic way.
BD: Were you ever able to get that answer from your parents as to what that reality was?
JCF: No, it’s impossible because you know something, my father died when I was super young. I was seventeen and my mother is so old right now that I don’t even try to discuss that and the only way to cure that dark spot in your life is, I think the only way to do it is through poetry, whether it is a movie or it is a book. It’s something that you have to create to express yourself and I did in the movie.
BD: It’s like you expunge that feeling from yourself and can finally let it go and move on?
JCF: Exactly. That’s the spirit of this movie.
BD: Was it difficult, the duality of showing Clive Owen’s character as a boy and as an adult? And also you have a Spanish movie and an English movie. Was it difficult for you to keep track of everything?
JCF: It was the most difficult thing doing this because it puts the audience in a very uncomfortable situation which is you’re jumping from one language to another one and you don’t understand why you’re doing that. Especially in the first half of the movie you say what is the connection? Yes, the monster looks similar in both of the stories but it’s not the same. So you’re suffering a lot when you are watching the movie. You have to make the audience work sometimes.
I have the feeling as an audience member you want to see experiences. We don’t want to think too much these days and I’m still fighting against that because I am an audience member as well and I recognize, by myself, for example when I’m tired and I want to forget about everything I put an action-driven movie in without any hesitation and then if I see a drama or something, I say, “no, no, no I don’t want to watch that.” So, it’s true, we are living in a difficult time nowadays and we want to be touched by the experience of something that puts you in another place, in another life. So you don’t want to think too much about your personal stuff.
But I think it’s necessary to keep going and to preserve some part of the industry, in terms of the filmmaking, about movies that push you and provoke you and to make you think about your life and your problems. And I think a good way to do it is with using the genre, because I think the genre is the perfect cloth to introduce complex and difficult ideas. So that’s why I always choose the genre as a drive because I think it helps me to tell stories that if I pitch from the beginning it sounds a little bit crazy. But with the genre you will be able to do it in a very easy way. It’s important to throw ideas out, but it’s important to do it in a very digestive way.
BD: That’s a good point about challenging audiences because so many horror films are about characters with masks and you’ve gone the total opposite direction. Why go with a faceless entity as opposed to a marketable Freddy Krueger doll?
JCF: We wanted to visualize in the monster the main idea of the movie which is “Who is the monster?” We don’t know who he is and the best way to see and experience that is seeing a monster without a face because then you are going to ask, “Who is this guy? Where does he come from? What does he want?” And it puts you in a very difficult situation because that dark hole is probably scarier than any single gesture you could imagine because you are projecting that darkness, your worst fears, and I think it’s very exciting for me.
BD: Was the hooded monster design your design?
JCF: It’s a combination with the writers and the costume designers. I think it was crucial to create a very recognizable and iconic monster who probably comes from the tales (in the film) because the story’s a tale and we need to make it as a monster coming from that place with the new flavor of the monster without an identity and you have to know those questions when you see that “No Face” monster.
BD: Do you think, subconsciously, there’s some tie-in with Middle Eastern garb such as the burka, the covered face?
JCF: It’s interesting you thought of that one.
BD: Especially for American audiences, who are so afraid of not being able to see peoples’ faces.
JCF: It’s so funny how it works. This is what I’m saying about you projecting your fear and right now you are doing that. You are projecting an American fear in the monster, which means that it works. I wouldn’t project that because I’m a Spaniard and for me that’s something I lived around, but I understand for people who are not used to it that it may represent a danger and the enemy. It’s true the darkness is the best place to project your fears.
BD: What other interpretations have people had of the creature?
JCF: I believe in Spain that many people recognize that monster as a very universal fear tat you are waking up in the middle of the night and in your closet there is somebody there hiding and waiting for you and to get you in your sleep.
It’s funny because one of my biggest fears is precisely that one. And playing with this idea in the therapy that I used to do, it was a big revelation to play this technique of the psychologique, which is the psychodrama, which is represented by yourself. The psychiatrist is putting you in the situation and you mentally have to solve the situation. And I remember playing with the idea that somebody was in that dark corner of my bedroom and then the psychiatrist pushed me to go to the corner to see who he was. And I did it and I remember to feel that fear, “Omigod! Omigod! I don’t see his face!” And you know what face I finally saw at that moment? My own face. It was me in the corner.
I think there are many, many fears that are connected with you and with your life and that sometimes you create those monsters and that those monsters belong to you, to your family, to your environment.
Of all the places to find a coven of witches, the attic above a Christian youth camp is probably the last place you’d think to look. But that’s just what we find in Camp, a surrealist nightmare of feminist empowerment from Canadian filmmaker Avalon Fast.
Emily (Zola Grimmer) is still reckoning with her involvement in a horrific tragedy when she accidentally contributes to the death of her best friend, Charlie (Giselle Morison). Unable to move on, the traumatized teen takes a job at a rural summer camp, hoping to forget her own sorrows by looking after at-risk kids. She quickly connects with a counselor named Clara (Alice Wordsworth) and finds comfort in her close-knit group of female friends. But a mysterious whisper from deep in the woods warns that they may be leading her down a darker path.
Fast burst onto the scene in 2022 with Honeycomb, a psychological horror film that follows a burgeoning matriarchy. Known for their focus on “Girl Horror” stories, the talented young filmmaker tackles similar themes in Camp as Emily leaves the modern world behind to embrace a dark vision of self-discovery through magic.
Ahead of the film’s U.S. release on June 26, Bloody Disgusting sat down with Fast to chat about the nebulous nature of good vs. evil and the intoxicating power of female-driven horror.
Bloody Disgusting: What inspired this unique story? Did you go to religious summer camps when you were young?
Avalon Fast: I did. I went to lots of different summer camps, but all of them were primarily Bible camps. The memory I have of camp is kind of strange. I was very homesick as a kid, and I didn’t necessarily enjoy all my time there. I definitely remember meeting some interesting girls at camp and having that presence of religion hovering around the whole experience.
BD: I really love the film’s gorgeous natural setting. Camp is the kind of surrealist nightmare that you don’t just watch. You feel it too. How did you approach creating this world?
AF: Well, a huge part of it was working with my cinematographer Eily Sprungman, who’s a very close friend. We spent years prepping, shot listing, storyboarding, and mood boarding. She’d had a similar experience to mine. We grew up around the same place, and so we understood each other’s visions from the get-go. But there are so many other pieces that came together. The costuming, the art, and the animated sequences were done by Sofiya Iurkevych. One of our producers, Taylor Nodrick, was obsessed with shooting on Super 8 film. I’ve always wanted to as well, so all the memory sequences were shot on Super 8. It was just a lot of people with an understanding and a vision for what this project was. I’m really happy with the way it turned out.
To the extent that you’re comfortable sharing, what’s your relationship to witchcraft, and what does Camp have to say about modern witches?
Well, that’s the question of Camp. It’s not that I don’t resonate with any of these things, but I specifically wanted Camp to be a little bit ambiguous around what witchcraft looks like. Is this witchcraft? Are these girls witches? Emily explicitly asks if that’s what’s happening here, and the answer isn’t yes. The film isn’t going to answer that question for you. My relationship to magic and witchcraft? It’s tough. I feel like there’s so much magic, connection, and spirituality that comes from these friendships, the closeness of these women, and what’s happening around them. A lot of what Camp is trying to say or show is just that magic can come out of friendship.
I loved watching these female friendships develop. And you’re right. No one ever says the word “coven,” but you can feel that connection, and you can see a change in Emily as those relationships grow. I’m also really fascinated with the way Camp plays with the idea of good and evil. At one point, Clara says, “Maybe God drew us to the devil,” which stopped me in my tracks. How do you view witchcraft or the magic these girls are experiencing in regard to good and evil?
That was such a huge part of the script’s construction. The story is really trying to keep a balance between those two things. I like asking people if they think these girls are good or bad, because I feel like a lot of people come out of the film thinking one or the other. They’ll say things like “thank God Emily found her people” or “God, I really wish she’d gone home.” I just don’t think there’s ever an answer. I wanted to explore the idea of going down the wrong path, especially coming out of grief. What makes you a bad person, and does healing mean you’re looking to become a better person? I don’t have an answer, but I do feel like that’s a huge part of what Camp is asking. What is good? What is bad? Why did God bring me to the devil?
Yes, because this is all happening at “God camp” in Emily’s words. So how can both of those things exist at the same time? Along those lines, I’m also fascinated by the voice Emily hears in the woods. Without spoiling too much, what is this voice asking, and what is required in return?
Emily comes to camp with a shout into the void, asking can anyone hear me? Does anyone want to? And it’s answered so clearly by these girls, specifically responding only with love, care, support, and trust. It’s like her prayers were answered. It doesn’t mean that everything is going to be alright, but Emily is looking for peace. She’s looking for a moment where she feels pure good. And I think, even at its surface level, she does get that experience.
Personally, I don’t really think people are good or bad. I think we all exist somewhere in the middle. Camp centers traditionally villainized characters, but that’s where Emily seems to find her peace, however you choose to define it.
I also wanted to show the experience of having decided that you are a bad person, you’ve made mistakes, and you feel cursed. Then when you meet other people who have done things that you would consider worse, you can actually feel good in their presence. You feel like less of a bad person. I think that’s a huge part of the story as well. Emily’s finding her version of other fucked up people, and she feels less fucked up around them. I’ve found that in my own life. It’s a cool thing. I don’t think it’s bad.
I don’t think it’s bad either. It’s finding your home, your people. We meet Emily in the aftermath of unthinkable trauma. Is this a story about mental health and healing?
Witnessing it myself. witnessing other people experience tragedy and then move through grief, you hear a lot of talk about healing or coming out the other side. There’s so much conversation around what that looks like, with self-care and showing up for yourself. I always felt really averse to it. It annoyed me. I think the beginning of the film speaks to that. The therapeutic version of what getting help looks like is obviously very different from what Camp is showing. And again, I don’t have an answer for what you’re supposed to do. But I think that’s another question I was asking: how do you heal? Do you heal at all? Is that the end goal, or are we just trying to get better? It’s something I experienced in my own grief. And the answer, for me, at least now, is just that I’m not looking to get better. So I felt like I hadn’t. I found it hard to find people to have those conversations with. And I think that’s what I ultimately wanted to make a film about.
I love that unanswered question. In my own experience, I’ve had to reframe what healing actually looks like. There’s not really an endpoint. It’s just finding a way to keep going. There’s also an element of sacrifice in this story, particularly regarding another counselor named Jo (Sophie Bawks-Smith). What role does she play in Emily’s journey?
For me, Jo is this human embodiment of Charlie, Emily’s friend. As Jo, she had a life at this camp before meeting Emily, and then was kind of taken over by Charlie’s spirit. I think a lot of people view Emily’s final choice as horrendous and tragic. In a way it is, but for me, if Jo becomes her angel, it’s almost like a self-sacrifice. Jo knows that by sacrificing herself, she’ll be giving Emily power to move forward. In the original script, the girls were supposed to bring out another counselor, JB (Aidan Laudersmith), and burn his body. But I just thought, there’s no way sacrificing this guy could give the girls enough power. There’s just no way, right? Logically, that just didn’t line up for me.
I’m glad you mentioned JB, because he has his own tragic arc. How do men factor into the world of Camp?
The way men factor into my world is so bizarre. I have such little respect for them in my films, which is something I’ve been called on. I think I have to challenge myself in the future to make a movie about a boy because, these boys … It’s not that the men in my films aren’t redeemable, but there’s no depth to these characters. They’re just treated with such disrespect. I don’t know why I do that, actually. That’s something for me to look into. It was the same with Honeycomb. They’re just such peripheral characters. I’ve had people ask about Kayne (Henri Gillespi), the scary guy at the fire, what happens to him? I just think, I don’t know. I don’t care. That’s not the point of the story.
Well, I can say after a lifetime of watching women on the periphery of the story, the course correction feels nice. In a similar vein, I’m in love with your homepage, avalonfast.com. There’s an image of girls on a film set and then a still from Honeycomb in which a blood-covered girl is screaming at the sky. And in the middle, it just says Girl Horror. It’s a really powerful statement that gives me chills. How do you define Girl Horror, and what draws you to these types of stories?
I was obsessed with the term when I started making my movies. It was something I’d come up with to kind of brand myself and describe what I was doing. Then I went through a period where I felt like it was a bit gender exclusive and didn’t interest me as much. But now I’ve come full circle on the term. I think it’s a bit of a commentary on youth and the horror of growing up female. But I think everybody can relate to that experience. I don’t want it to feel like this exclusive thing, that I make movies exclusively for girls, because I don’t think I do. I’m interested in exploring what Girl Horror means. Originally, it was just a title, something I came up with, and now it’s become something that resonates with people. You said it gave you chills. That’s cool for me to hear because there’s obviously some depth there.
Are you working on anything new?
Yes. I am actually making a movie about a boy. That’s the next thing.
That’s exciting! The more I think about feminism, the more I end up coming back to men and boys, because they have a place in the world of Girl Horror too.
Absolutely. It’s all just part of being human.
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