Interviews
[Interview] ‘Sinister 2’ Writer C. Robert Cargill, Director Ciaran Foy and Producer Jason Blum
In 2012, true crime novelist Ellison Oswalt moved his family into a home where a horrific murder had taken place. Each night, while they slept soundly, unaware of the bloodshed that once decorated their new abode, he uncovered the truth about the unsolved mystery of the previous residents who were hanged in his backyard, and the dark figure he believes to be responsible for the event. After discovering a box in the attic containing a Super 8 camera, a projector, and tin cans filled with film, Elison decides to watch whatever is on these little home movies, and use them as little bits of evidence that will hopefully will bring him one step closer to the killer, and his long-awaited return to literary fame. But as the projector slaps the celluloid through the spinning reels, and the bulb sparks to life and emits images onto the screen, Elison finds to his horror that he isn’t just watching movies that contain clues to various crimes, he’s witnessing real snuff films made by the killer’s own hand. At first, it seems like the ticket to success has been lazily dropped in his lap. However, as his knowledge on the subject grows, Elison learns that the man he is hunting down is uncatchable, for he isn’t a man at all — he’s a deity. Now, Elison, along with his new friend in the police department, Deputy So & So, try their hardest to put an end to the reign of this horrible creature, who goes by Bughuul, or “Mr. Boogie”, but to no avail. In the end, Elison and his loving family fall prey to the same boogeyman that claimed the lives of all of the people from the tapes that Elison studied night after night, his collaborating deputy figuring out the secret to end the madness frustratingly only moments too late.
Flash-forward to 2015, and Deputy So-and-So hasn’t given up the search for Bughuul, or his quest to stop this personification of death once and for all. Let go from the force for attempting to burn a house to the ground, this deputy believes that if he sets fire to a home that is on Bughuul’s path, he will set flame to the pagan icon himself, and thereby finally put an end to his hundred year strong killing spree. The deputy’s on his way to the next house on the list, equipped with cans of gasoline, lighters, and a determination to avenge his lost friend. What he finds when he arrives, however, is a family that has already moved in to the property, unknowingly marking themselves as the next victims of Bughuul and his ghost children. Now, the deputy must earn the trust of mother Courtney Collins and her two boys, Dylan and Zach, protect them from Courtney’s abusive husband that seeks to take full custody by force, all while shielding them from Bughuul and his merciless wrath on the innocent. To say that he’s up against incredible odds would be an understatement, but with enough persistence, the deputy might just be able to save this family, and pay back the debt he feels he owes after being unable to rescue Elison and the rest of the Oswalts three long, guilt-ridden years ago.
When producer Jason Blum asked Sinister writers Scott Derrickson and C. Robert Cargill back for a sequel, the first obstacle to tackle was isolating the centerpieces from the first film, and revisiting them in a manner that felt satisfactory for fans, but not repetitive. “Everyone has a very different idea of what a Sinister movie is” writer C. Robert Cargill observes, which means that each fan is going to want different elements of the first film brought back again. “Is it the kill films? Is it Bughuul?” ponders Cargill, “Is it the kids? Like, what is it specifically that makes a Sinister film a Sinister film?” In order to answer that question, Cargill and Derrickson sat down and started at square one. “Well, first of all, let’s bring Deputy So & So back”, Cargill recites while reminiscing back to brainstorming for the script with Derrickson. The deputy, who could have easily been a throwaway typical cop character in the first installment, actually turns out to be a worthy companion to Ellison, as Cargill points out how in the “first movie he proves that he’s an even better investigator than Ellison is, and now in this movie, he gets to prove it by doing all of the things that Ellison didn’t, and becoming the hero that we needed in the first film, that can hopefully save the family this time”.
To director Ciarán Foy, a Sinister film is characterized by its turmoil in the family unit. “I think that the scares are the icing on the cake”, explains Foy, “if the drama doesn’t work, then it doesn’t matter what you do, you know?” Foy recognizes that what made the first film stand out and seem so frightening was how grounded in reality the members of the family were, with their fights and their inside jokes and their dreams. “It was my kind of horror film in that the performances felt real, therefore the characters felt real, and I often think that when you’ve got that recipe right then any sense of terror or horror that you ask the audience to feel is amplified because it doesn’t feel fake”. Foy hopes to bring that same strong sense of realism to his entry in the franchise, and producer Jason Blum couldn’t be more in favor of his decision. “If there’s any theme of Sinister, to me, it’s taking a common crisis and escalating the crisis by putting it in a supernatural circumstance” remarks Blum. Even Cargill comments on how the impact of he and Derrickson’s work lies in the gritty depiction of familial bonds, “at its heart, a real Sinister movie is one that shows the breakdown of a family unit, that shows us exactly why this kid is able and willing to be seduced by Bughuul”.
Just like its predecessor, Sinister 2 focuses on the terrors and trials within the characters’ own family unit as much as the horrifying spirits that haunt their home. Bughuul may be a powerful Babylonian god of darkness, but he doesn’t create struggles in the household as much as he capitalizes on them. “On the surface, Bughuul is an ancient pagan deity that seduces children and gets them to create art while killing their parents” muses Cargill, “But really, the deeper thing with Bughuul is Bughuul feeds on dysfunction”. Clever as he is wicked, Mr. Boogie seeks out troubled kids, manipulates them into thinking that the source of their problems is their parents, and the only solution is to kill them. “He feeds upon broken families, that’s how he gets the kids” states Cargill about his creature. Bughuul may collect children’s souls, but it’s not done all at once. He eats them slowly, over time, as he consumes a little more of their happiness and humanity with each day, until there’s nothing left but a shadow of the child this family once knew.
The Collins family has been experiencing frightening issues since long before their interactions with Bughuul and his ghost children. The man of the house, Clint, is just as much of a predator as the mouthless monster terrorizing his son Dylan, as he’s proven to be very abusive in the past, both verbally and physically. It seems that no matter where Dylan turns, a boogeyman in the form of a father figure stands waiting to claim him. “Slowly turning them into monsters is exactly what we were going for” explains Cargill, “Because that’s the thing, Bughuul and Clint are essentially the same thing. They’re both these things that are just trying to exist, and exist through fear and intimidation”
As Clint hammers out the circle of violence that plagues so many abusive homes; his angry nature mirrored in his son Zach, so, too, does Bughuul act out his circle of violence, as he continues his reign, destroying household after household, and projecting his murderous ways onto children who commit horrid crimes in his name, the two physical and supernatural cycles looping out the same circle motif. “The circle of violence was something that was thematically important to me, not only to drama, but also visually” says director Foy, “I spoke to Bill Boes, the production designer, at length about how I wanted circular motion to be something that carries through the movie.” This idea is clearly evident in the film, as circular imagery pops up left and right, from the way victims are arranged, to the pattern of the crops, to the spinning of the camera. “We’re talking about Bughuul’s reign of murders, we’re talking about the kill films, and we’re talking about history repeating itself” stresses Foy. Interestingly enough, by highlighting the two rings of carnage within the physical context of the set, Foy brings the parallels between Clint and Bughuul full circle.
As Mr. Boogie is caught on film once again, the chances of him becoming a new horror icon, and joining the ranks of past slasher legends like Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees, skyrockets. “People are always looking for an iconic horror figure” series expert Blum teases, “I don’t know if Bughuul is that yet, but he could be”. As a production company responsible for such successful micro budget films as the Paranormal Activity and Insidious franchises, Blumhouse certainly is an appropriate home for the Sinister movies to blossom. In the event of future films, Cargill already has an idea for a new plot point in place, as highlighted by Sinister 2. “If there are any other Sinister films, I would love to see a variety of art forms played around with” Cargill reveals excitedly, describing his plans for Bughuul to break through different forms of medium in upcoming entries, such as “Different styles of camera, but also audio, digital, and whatever else can create these experiences that can terrify the audience”. Does this mean that the third Sinister film could swap out the usual aspect of children filming their murderous rampages for recording their sprees via literature? It’s possible.
One thing’s for sure, if there are any future entries in the Sinister franchise, Blum absolutely wants to bring back Scott Derrickson and C. Robert Cargill as the writers once again: “I really think the key to making a good sequel is to get the people who were involved in the original”, adding on later that Derrickson is one of the most talented directors that Blum had ever has the pleasure of working with, and that he hopes to “do a lot more with him once he’s done with his friends at Marvel”.
Interviews
“I Don’t See Retiring from This” – Joe Bob Briggs Talks New “Last Drive-In” Format and the Show’s Future [Interview]
Hey everybody, have you heard the news? Joe Bob is back in town!
The Last Drive-In with Joe Bob Briggs has returned for its sixth season on Shudder. While the show’s format has been slightly revised — adopting a new biweekly schedule with one film instead of a double feature — the beloved horror host’s approach is much the same.
“It didn’t really change anything,” Briggs tells Bloody Disgusting. “We were crowding all of our movies into 10 weeks once a year and then having specials, and we found that people would rather have more weeks. It’s actually more movies than we had before.
“And some of the people on the East coast fall asleep in the second movie,” he laughs. “It’s about a five-hour show when it’s a double feature because we talk so much. Also, it’s hard to get thematic double features every single time. So our specials are still double features, but our regular episodes are single features.”
The season kicked off last week with The Last Drive-In Live: A Tribute to Roger Corman, celebrating the legendary filmmaker’s first 70 years in Hollywood with a double feature of 1959’s A Bucket of Blood and 1983’s Deathstalker. The special was filmed live in front of a fervent audience of Briggs’ fan base — lovingly dubbed the Mutant Family — at Joe Bob’s Drive-In Jamboree in Las Vegas last October.
In addition to his usual hosting duties, Briggs conducted a career-spanning interview with Corman and his wife, fellow producer Julie Corman. They were also joined by one of Corman’s oldest friends and collaborators, Bruce Dern. In a heartfelt moment of mutual admiration, Briggs and Corman exchanged lifetime achievement awards on hubcaps.
“I’ve known Roger for about 35 years, so I’ve only known him for half of his career,” Briggs chuckles. In his long history of reviewing, interviewing, and talking about Corman and his legendary work, one emblematic encounter sticks out to Briggs.
“I remember the very first time I went to the Corman studio, which was a lumber yard on Venice Boulevard. He had a standing set for a spaceship control room, a standing set for a strip club, and I think he had one other one, and then he had all of his editing facilities there, but it was still a lumber yard. They had not really changed any of the buildings or anything.
“He’s showing me around the studio, and we were walking past a pile of debris, and I said, ‘Roger, is that the mutant from Forbidden World?’ It had just been thrown over in a corner. And he just said, ‘Yes, Joe Bob, I believe that is. He was apparently no longer needed.’ I said, ‘Roger, you gotta get with it! That stuff is worth money.’ But he was like, ‘When the movie’s over, the movie’s over.’ That was Roget to a T.”
At least part of Corman’s longevity can be attributed to his shrewd business practices and pragmatic approach to the industry, which has included working in every conceivable genre of cinema. “I couldn’t think of a single genre he has not made,” Briggs says.
“When we did this interview at the Jamboree, I said, ‘I’m gonna name the genre, and you tell me what you love about that genre,’ and every comment that he made involved money and box office performance,” he snickers. “None of it was involved with love of cinema, although I did get him to say that his favorite genre is a genre that he didn’t dabble in much other than his first movie [1954’s Highway Dragnet], and that was film noir.”
While the fourth annual Drive-In Jamboree is still in the planning stage, Briggs is delighted by the event’s continued success. “The Jamboree is something that we literally just threw together. We’ve had three of them now. It’s something where we just show up and try to come up with programming for each day.
“But I really think the Jamboree is more about the mutant family meeting the mutant family. It’s more about people who know each other online gathering and partying with each other in person. It’s not so much about what movies we have. I mean, we always have an anniversary movie, and we always have some special guests and everything, but it’s more about the gathering of the mutants. It’s fun from that point of view. They’re exhausting, I can tell you that.”
The zeal among Briggs’ audience has only grown over the years, from hosting Joe Bob’s Drive-In Theater on The Movie Channel from 1986 to 1996, to MonsterVision on TNT from 1996 to 2000, and The Last-Drive-In on Shudder since 2018. “I’m amazed, having been in the business for this many years, that I still have a show at this time, because they say you can’t repeat TV,” Briggs notes.
“Nobody wants to see old TV, and yet I’ve done the same show three times on three different networks, and every time I try to change it everyone says, ‘No, no, don’t change it! That’s the part we love.’ I always want to do something new, and I’m always told, ‘No, you’re the CEO of Coca Cola who went to New Coke.’ You can’t do that. People will revolt. So we’re still doing it.
“It’s one of the few shows that I know of that’s just sort of grown organically over, gosh, almost 40 years. We’ve just added elements to the show. We try things. If something doesn’t work, we throw it away. If something works, we do it forever!”
The mutant family will be happy to know that Briggs plans to continue hosting and writing about movies for as long as he’s able to. “I don’t see retiring from this or retiring from writing. I’m primarily a writer, and the good thing about writing is long after they don’t wanna see you on TV anymore you can still write.
“The difference today, though, is I was pretty much the only guy doing genre films when I started. Now, there are academics that do it. There are entire books written about Dario Argento and Tobe Hooper and even lesser names than those, and there are, of course, a massive number of websites, including your own, so that when something comes out today, there’s immediately a hundred reviews of it; whereas in 1982, I was sort of the only guy, because the movies were considered disposable trash. So I have been surpassed in my deep knowledge, because who can keep up with all that? It’s impossible!”
Diana Prince, who serves as Briggs’ co-host Darcy the Mail Girl and was instrumental in getting him back in the hosting chair, has been promoted to an associate producer this season. “She was sort of always the associate producer, but I guess they finally gave her the title,” Briggs explains.
“Diana Prince is in on all the decisions about programming. I always listen to Austin Jennings, the director, and Diana Prince, the mail girl, because they come from opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of what kind of movies they wanna watch, and we try to strike a balance between. You know, she’s not gonna vote for Possession, and he’s not gonna vote for Mountaintop Motel Massacre,” he chortles.
“They’re probably the principal advisors, as far as what we show. Of course, [Diana] has a lot of social media clout, and she’s extremely knowledgeable about pop culture. Wow! She has seen everything. She’s seen more than I’ve seen!”
While surprises are part of the fun of The Last Drive-In, Briggs previews some of what’s in store this season. “The place we normally live is the neglected ’80 slasher, and we still live there,” he assures. “But we’re gonna pay a lot more attention to the ’70s especially. I’ve always thought the ’70s are more interesting than the ’80s anyway. And we’re gonna pay attention to some really recent stuff.”
He teases, “We’re gonna bring back Joe Bob’s Summer School, which is something that we used to do at MonsterVision. And we may have a marathon. There’s a possibility of that. But I’ll be digging this new format of being on every other week between now and at least up to Labor Day.”
While Briggs’ hosting format hasn’t changed much across four decades, the world around him certainly has — and that’s why The Last Drive-In remains relevant. He points out, “In the era of streaming, where everything is menus and there are thousands and thousands and thousands of choices, we are that thing called a curator that can direct you to the fun places on the spectrum of streaming.
“Streaming is very confusing for people, and a lot of people don’t like it for that reason. I hope what we’re doing is cutting through the weeds and bringing things into perspective. And, you know, it’s just more fun to watch a movie with us!” he concludes with a Texas-sized grin.
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