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[Interview] ‘WolfCop’ Himself, Leo Fafard!

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It’s been almost a year since we dropped our review of Lowell Dean’s riotous WolfCop and tomorrow the bad beast is finally shredding its way onto home video and VOD. The Canadian production is more than just a wicked name, it’s an excellent exploitation homage with retro-80s synths and hammy acting that also works really well as an actual cop movie, in which the lone wolf (ahem) policeman takes on small town corruption.

That lone wolf would be Lou Garou, played by Saskatchewan’s renaissance man Leo Fafard. He drinks, he growls, he welds Wolf Cruisers in his garage! I recently spoke with Leo and he dished out the ins and outs of playing WolfCop, the role’s difficulties, and more. Let ‘er rip…

(and come back tomorrow for our interview with WolfCop writer/director Lowell Dean).

The first question I have to ask you is, what’s it like being WolfCop?

It’s fucking awesome, what do you mean “what’s it like”? It’s the shit.

Good Answer. How did you get involved with the project?

A couple years ago I was shooting a music video for a local band in Saskatchewan called Rah Rah. I played a werewolf in their video for this song called “Henry.” Lowell (Dean) was the director and by the end of the shoot he liked what I did so he asked me would I like to be involved with a project he was writing called Wolfcop. It took about half a second to answer that one. “A movie called Wolfcop and you want me to play the wolf?” Done.

Such a no brainer. What was the most difficult part of the role?

A lot of people think it was getting in and out of all the makeup. But let me tell you, Emersen Ziffle, the makeup artist, is so much fun to hang around with. He’s so talented and good at his job. That part wasn’t as nearly hard as you think. For one thing, he would start putting all the stuff on me and I’d doze off, he’d wake me up an hour later. So the most difficult part of playing Wolfcop would have to be playing a cop.

Really?

I’ve never really gotten along with cops all that well. I’ve never really had anything to do with them unless I was running my ass off from them. Lou is a downright drunken, kind of cast off, so that’s what kind of got me into the role.

When Lou transforms, his whole attitude and movements change as well. How did you approach playing the cop versus playing the wolf?

Very little as far as the direction. Lowell really gave me the reins on that. As far as the transformation scenes, they were kind of difficult. You had to get yourself in the mindset of someone who is in excruciating, body-twisting pain. To portray that and the fact that he’s losing his humanity and becoming a beast, a savage as his skin falls off…it’s traumatizing enough. There was some challenge there. I grew up in northern Saskatchewan in the wilderness, so I spent a lot of time observing nature and animals. It was really just a manner of getting back to a more basic being. More instinctual, finding that aspect of yourself. If I didn’t have the foreshadowing of societal pressure and how you’re supposed to move through society, what’s the most efficient way? That’s what animals do. They behave in the most efficient, most instinctual sort of way. So it was that sort of idea.

Screen-Shot-2014-04-25-at-11.43.11-AM-620x400-620x400

The film’s obviously really out there. Was there ever a moment on set where it felt like you were going overboard?

(Laughs) Every moment. What this movie had to rely on was Lowell’s skill and his vision. He’s very talented and very professional so it’s easy to put your trust in his hands. He knows what he wants and he knows when to take a break. I mean, we shot a lot of stuff that was over the top and he went into it knowing what he wanted to get out of it and what he wanted to do with it. We didn’t have much rehearsal time, you know. This movie didn’t have much money. So we really hit the ground running every time we stepped on the set. Lowell did take the time to shoot scenes a couple of different ways to get what he wanted. It’s over-the-top and campy, but it’s still marketable. And we just let loose to see where we could take it. So yeah I thought we were going over-the-top a few times but I had faith in Lowell and knew he’d capture what he needed.

I talked to him and he mentioned that you helped weld the Wolf Cruiser together.

Yeah! I spent a lot of years as a welder so I had all the equipment. I have a small welding shop in my garage so I’m always making stuff. And I’ve been working on vehicles as a backyard mechanic my whole life. So we looked at some pictures, broke out our pencils and sketched some stuff out. I patched up the car a little bit and then we decided “we need more of this or less of this.” Then Lowell said “I want you to do this and this, rip the doors off, blah blah blah.” We really did develop it together and then I just took it to the shop and I cut the fucker up.

Give me one crazy story from the set.

Me and another local actor were sharing a fight scene during the climax when I’m on one of the final killing scenes. So we’re out in the bush and he shoots me with a shotgun and has the drop on me and whatnot. We did a lot of blocking and when it comes time to shoot it we know what we’re doing and what we want. In the initial shot when I attack Josh (Strait), it starts with him hitting me in the face with the butt of the shotgun and then I sort of push him against a tree. We started into this fight scene and really went at it. And Lowell at this time had a sprained ankle and was walking with a cane. He’s behind the monitor about 40 feet away and I guess he wobbled up had yelled “cut”, but neither of us heard him. So we keep going at it. Throwing punches and slashing and I’ve got him up against the tree, Josh’s squirming around and tossing himself on the ground and Lowell has called “cut” about four times. Finally he just goes “okay keep going! Keep going!” Me and Josh look at each other and we’ve been going for about three minutes. I look at Lowell and he’s just got this look of shock on his face. It was awesome.

It’s early in production, but is there anything you can tell us about Wolfcop 2?

I don’t know what I can get away with telling you, so I’ll just say this: bigger and badder. If you thought the first one was over-the-top, buckle your seat belts.

Very good to hear! Congratualtions again on the film and thanks so much for talking to me.

No, thank you!

Patrick writes stuff about stuff for Bloody and Collider. His fiction has appeared in ThugLit, Shotgun Honey, Flash Fiction Magazine, and your mother's will. He'll have a ginger ale, thanks.

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Interviews

Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’

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Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep Review - Paul Tremblay AI Horror

Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating. 

“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”

While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists. 

I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.

Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”

The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling. 

Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story. 

“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”

The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential. 

“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.

Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay. 

“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness. 

“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”

So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation. 

“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”

Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere. 

Dead but Dreaming of electric sheep

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