Leigh Whannell has been changing the game ever since he walked on the scene in 2003. The creator of both the Saw series and the Insidious franchise, it seems that whenever the man puts pen to paper he turns ink into gold. That’s why it comes as no surprise that his latest piece of work, Insidious: The Last Key is just as exciting as its previous entries, a feat not easily done when it comes to making sequels in the movie business, no matter what genre the features technically fall into. One might wonder how he manages to pull it all off.
Lucky for me, I was able to sit down with the Whannell himself and get a peek inside his writer’s brain. In the interview, we talk about how he and Wan came to be partners in the first place, the way in which he approached developing two massive horror franchises, and the key to making a successful sequel.
Bloody Disgusting: You’re kind of the shit. It’s really impressive that you wrote the Saw short in 2003, then you wrote the feature-length version which came out in 2004 and not only became a huge success, but completely changed the horror game. Then, you wrote Insidious in 2010 which blew up again. These are huge accomplishments. What’s it like crafting two major horror franchises?
Leigh Whannell: Oh man, I’m so thankful. Both James and I, at every stage of the way we’ve seen everything as a bonus prize. Like, when we first concocted the idea for Saw, we were in Melbourne, we’d been to film school, now we’re out of film school, we’re no longer in the loving embrace of academia, we’re in the bad old world where nobody wants to know if you’re an aspiring filmmaker, no one wants to give you any money and nobody wants to help you. So we figured out pretty quickly that if we were gonna make a movie, we were gonna have to pay for it ourselves, but we didn’t have any money so it was a real conundrum. And so that’s where the idea for Saw came from, how do you make a movie for no money? Two actors in one room, that’s the cheapest thing we can do. We can get a video camera from a friend of ours, we can shoot this movie. So, the whole thing was meant to be this video, and then, by the way, this is the early 2000s, so when I say video, don’t think like, the Alexa, don’t think a Cannon, think of what video was then, so like a little camcorder, that’s we were planning to shoot the film on. So, when we came over to America to shoot Saw the movie here, and we had like Cary Elwes and Danny Glover and 35mm, you know, by the standards of Hollywood it was a really cheap down and dirty little film, but by our standards, it was Lawrence of Arabia, we couldn’t believe it. So it was a bonus prize to be here in L.A. making a film, and then it was a bonus prize that Lionsgate said they would put it out. Because at that stage, there was still video stores and we were hoping for a straight to video situation, so it was a bonus prize that they put it out theatrically, and then it was a bonus prize that it got into Sundance. I guess it’s a testament to the power of low expectations, because we weren’t like, running around saying, ‘We’re gonna be the greatest filmmakers ever!’ because we were so self-deprecating and had such low expectations, everything was amazing. So when I look back at Saw and Insidious, I just think, ‘Wow. Both of those films went way past what we ever could’ve dreamt for them’ and it makes me genuinely thankful, like every single day, once a day, even if it’s just for thirty seconds, sitting in my car, I have a moment where I’m like, I can’t believe I’m here. I can’t believe I’m doing this for a living.
BD: So true, and now you’re back with the fourth installment of Insidious which is nuts, and it’s really good! I mean that’s a difficult thing, to make a successful, entertaining fourth entry in a franchise.
Leigh Whannell: Oh that’s great! That’s great to hear you say, I mean that was my goal, was to make a film that at least stood shoulder to shoulder with the other films. I didn’t want it to be a series of diminishing returns. But yeah the first one was great, but I didn’t want it to be Jaws. Not to say that Jaws: The Revenge doesn’t have its attributes, but I wanted it to be on par with the others, so we all worked hard to bring it to that level. Like, Lin you know, she is such a part of the films and she knows her character Elise better than any of us at this stage, in fact she would often say to Adam Robitel and I on set, ‘Elise wouldn’t say that’ and we don’t question it or push back at her because we feel like she has taken ownership of her character. At this point I’m not sure where Lin stops and Elise starts. They’re basically the same person to me. So we all tried very hard to make a film that was worthy of the others.
BD: Would you say that there are certain keys to making a successful sequel, and if so, what are they?
LW: I like your little reference to the title there. Maybe there is, you know once I sat down with a really good friend of mine, Jason Constantine, who works at Lionsgate. He was there when we put out the first Saw movie, he was an executive at Lionsgate, and executives in Hollywood get a really bad rep, they’re not the most liked people in town by people on the creative side, but I would say Jason’s one of the good ones. He’s such a nice guy, such a film geek, and just kind of a joy to be around and I remember I sat down with him and he gave me his rules for a great sequel. He was like, ‘Here are the things you need to do’, and I agree completely. I do think you need to give the fans of the previous movies what they want, whilst not giving them what they expect. So, you can’t veer off the path too far, but you need to veer off it enough that people don’t just feel like they’re watching the same thing. And then I think adding a layer is good, if you can somehow deepen the meaning of the previous films, that’s always a good thing. I’m not saying I did this, but that would at least be an aim of mine, to sort of retroactively give more meaning to the films, that’s something we’ve tried to do with the Insidious movies. Also, I think probably a great rule is to try to not repeat yourself. I think repetition is the hardest thing to avoid with sequels, because you’ve told a story and now you’re adding more story to the story. So the great sequels like Terminator 2 and Mad Max 2: Road Warrior and The Godfather Part II, they all feel really natural, like the story needed to happen. When you watch Terminator 2, you feel like it’s a natural extension of that first movie. It’s a really tough trick to pull off.
BD: I agree, but I think you did it by adding the backstory of Elise’s family and also kind of grounding this entry more in reality than the previous installments really provided new and different layers to the Insidious franchise.
LW: Oh cool! Thanks for saying that, I mean, I think so, that was the biggest aim, because when you meet Elise’s character in the first film, she’s really a supporting character, this quirky character, bringing in the fun. I mean that was her gig for years, Lin Shaye was the go-to for quirky supporting characters, the scene stealer. They were like, ‘Yeah we’ll just put Lin Shaye in there and she’ll do something crazy’. So, the stars of that first movie were Rose Byrne and Patrick Wilson who played the happy family that was being invaded by these demons, so you don’t really get to meet Lin until the third act of the film. So, to really go into who she is, with this fourth movie, it allows you to watch that first movie in a different way, because now when she knocks on the door, she’s not the quirky supporting actor anymore. She’s a human being with a full story.
BD: I really like the two of you together, and I think it’s really cool that you’ve developed this really strong bond throughout the course of the films. How did she become your go-to lady and the star of the Insidious franchise?
LW: James Wan was really adamant about casting Lin Shaye in the first movie. We worked with her on this short film called ‘Doggy Heaven’. To this day I wish James had changed that title. But, we met her doing this short film, so when we did Insidious James was set on putting her in there, and we never expected that one day I’d be sitting here talking to you about a fourth movie, we were just trying to make one good movie. So, it’s kind of been a happy accident that Lin Shaye played that role, because we weren’t intending to make a fourth movie, that wasn’t the plan. The same thing happened with Tobin Bell, really. I mean if you think about the first Saw movie, all he had to do was lie on the floor. I mean what are the chances that we cast Tobin Bell, this great character actor, because when that series went on, they really utilized that. I mean if we had cast someone who was not a great actor but was really great at lying still on the floor, they would’ve been fucked when it came to the sequels, because he’s the star now. So, that’s twice that that happy accident has happened, so I can’t say that it was by design that Lin Shaye became the star of the franchise, but I’m so happy that she is because she’s so enthusiastic, she’s such a firecracker and she loves this character so much.
BD: I thought it was very interesting that in this film, Elise’s niece is revealed as having the gift of being a medium as well. Is there a chance we might see her come to the forefront in any possible upcoming sequels?
LW: This is why I love talking to horror fans, because they see all the twists and turns. That was interesting, there was no grand plan for her to pick up the baton and become the hero of the franchise down the road, at all. So I did not put that character of Imogen to have her come up and take Lin’s place, but now that you say that, it kind of makes sense, doesn’t it? If there were going to be any more Insidious movies, I guess it only makes sense that she would be the natural person to take over. That’s a great suggestion, I’m gonna steal it. I won’t credit you (laughs) but you’ll know in your heart that it was you when you see it happen in the next film.
Insidious: The Last Key is now in theaters everywhere.
