[Interview] ‘Upgrade’ Writer/Director Leigh Whannell on CGI Gore and His Upcoming Mystery Project
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Leigh Whannell has been a mainstay of the horror genre ever since he burst onto the scene with 2004’s Saw, a film that he both co-wrote and starred in. Since then he has written two Saw sequels, the ventriloquist doll horror film Dead Silence and all four Insidious films. Up next for Whannell is the upcoming sci-fi thriller Upgrade, which he both wrote and directed (it his is second directorial effort after Insidious: Chapter 3). In the film, a paraplegic man named Grey Trace (Logan Marshall-Green) uses an experimental computer chip (nicknamed STEM) embedded in his spinal cord to become a superhuman fighter and avenge his wife’s murder. I was fortunate enough to speak with Whannell when he stopped by Austin, Texas on his press tour.
With the exception of the Saw films, Whannell is wont to inject a healthy dose of comedy into his horror films. It has been used to various degrees of success in all four entries of the Insidious franchise (see: the characters of Tucker and Specs), Dead Silence and now Upgrade. Anyone who reads the comments on Bloody-Disgusting (something that I am guilty of) will know that some viewers aren’t the biggest fans of that choice, so I wanted to give Whannell a chance to explain his motives for making it:
“It depends on the movie you’re writing,” he said. “The movies sort of tell you what they want to be as you’re writing them. So when I work with James [Wan], especially when we do independent films together, we come up with this outlandish stuff. If you think about the first Saw movie there’s a doll on a tricycle and it’s pretty outlandish. That seems to be our chemistry when we’re working together, to go for this weird stuff. And so with Insidious, it seemed at the scriptwriting stage, it seemed to suit the movie. Whereas with Upgrade I slowly discovered as we were shooting the movie that the banter between Logan and STEM was fun. And I liked the idea of kind of a buddy cop movie where one of the characters is just a voice. I don’t think humor is something to be afraid of. You just have to ask yourself ‘Is this the movie to do it?’ A movie like Hereditary, which I recently saw and it’s great, is not the type of movie that begs to be funny. The script doesn’t need that do you really need to be good at judging what it needs and I thought Upgrade would be a better movie if there was a little bit of comedic tension between Grey and STEM.”
While viewers may find themselves divided on the necessity of comedy in a film like Insidious, Whannell (and critics) seem to think that they will be more than satisfied with the comedy in Upgrade (I’m a fan of all of his films, but Upgrade really hits the mark with the comedy).

As with many low-budget films, certain sacrifices must be made when it comes to production. One thing that horror fans are starting to see more and more of is the use of computer-generated blood as opposed to good old-fashioned fake blood. For a low-budget film (Blumhouse productions tend to stay within the $5 million range but a handful have gone as high as $10 million), Upgrade actually contains some nifty practical effects, the best of which can be seen in the rather spoiler-y red-band trailer. That being said, there are some fleeting moments of CGI blood. Most of them are relegated to gunshot splatter, but their mere presence will no doubt bother some viewers. Whannell provided a bit of an explanation for his use of CGI gore, stating:
“It’s usually dictated by pragmatism and practicality. The decision is made for you. For instance, a squib might not go off correctly. We had real squibs but human error. You hit that button and it doesn’t always work the way you need it to, so [CGI] is brought in to save something. I would never go for CGI blood either, but there were I think two scenes in the film where the squibs and the practical blood just didn’t work properly. So that’s when you have to, however reluctantly, bust out the CGI. If the practical works beautifully then it all comes together. I’d go for it every time if I could. And most of the time on this film the practical worked brilliantly.”
In reference to the aforementioned practical effect shown in the film’s red-band trailer (this contains a minor spoiler about which body part is involved so feel free to skip this next paragraph if you wish to be kept in the dark about this tidbit), Whannell said:
“There was a big chance that wasn’t going to work. We could only afford 2 practical heads. We didn’t have 6 like a film with a bigger budget might so we had 2 chances to get this right and the first one didn’t work. I’m not a religious man but I was praying to God. With each head you get one go so if the second head had not worked properly I would have had to call up the CGI company and ask them to help a brother out. So just know that for me at least, whenever you see CG blood, it’s usually to cover something that hasn’t worked.”
With such an esteemed filmography, one has to wonder what Whannell will be working on next, especially since Insidious 5 doesn’t seem to be in his future. Concluding the interview, Whannell gave us a brief, if vague update on what’s in store for him after Upgrade.
“I have this opportunity to write a script which I’m probably not allowed to talk about,” he said, “but I’m working on it right now. I can say it’s a horror film and it’s different than anything I’ve done. It’s a little more high-profile in the terms of the characters and it’s something that people know. But it’s not a remake. How’s that for a tongue twister? So I’m working on that. I’m really excited about it. I want it to be this really intense, Polanski-style horror.”
What could this mystery project be? It looks like we’ll have to wait to find out, but go ahead and hazard a guess in the comments!
Upgrade hits theaters nationwide this Friday, June 1, 2018.
Interviews
Paul Tremblay on Fighting AI with Horror in New Novel ‘Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep’
Paul Tremblay didn’t start his writing career believing he’d be battling machines over the sanctity of his job, but like so many writers of his generation, the battle found him. In the years since Large Language Models (LLMs) and neural networks started gaining traction as an advertised shortcut to creativity, Tremblay has been active in lawsuits to prevent the use of his works in training AI models, and he’s found that, with each new project, he has to consider the possibility that some LLM, somewhere, is going to latch on to what he’s creating.
“Now I feel like I’m thinking about, ‘Man, how am I going to write things that would be really hard or impossible for an AI to replicate?’,” Tremblay told me, speaking by Zoom from his home in Massachusetts. “Maybe some of that is ego. I’m sure every writer thinks, ‘Oh, an AI could never write what I write.’ Yes, I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t part of the thought process.”
While that’s something Tremblay might consider with any new work at this point in his career, the Bram Stoker Award-winning author of A Head Full of Ghosts, The Cabin at the End of the World, and many other novels and short stories tackled it in a more direct way with his latest book. Inspired by Philip K. Dick, Harlan Ellison, and the quirky humor of the Coen Brothers, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is Tremblay’s attempt at a sci-fi-horror mash-up that’s both darkly funny and existentially nightmarish. It’s also, in his own words, a screed against the movement by AI companies to supplant human artists.
“I didn’t want to make it too didactic, but no, I playfully described this book as an anti-AI screed,” he said. “This book, in particular, was driven by anger and frustration, for sure. Not every book is going to be driven that way.“
Despite the emotions that fueled it, Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep does not read like a screed. Instead, wielding offbeat humor and tech concepts that feel both lived-in and frighteningly tactile, the book lays out tandem narratives all building to the same conclusion, each of them exploring our relationship to machine learning in a different way. One of these narratives belongs to Julia, a former gaming streamer looking for a new challenge in life, who gets a call from a California tech company with an interesting offer.

Paul Tremblay in documentary series “First Word on Horror”
The company has, it seems, implanted some new technology in a brain-dead middle-aged man which will, in theory, allow them to pilot the man’s body through a rudimentary, still-developing system of controls. Julia, with her gaming background, would be the pilot, in her own way just as much a test subject as the human vegetable she’s controlling.
Julia is a Gen Z streamer with an omnivorous pop culture appetite, inspired by Tremblay’s own adult children, who riffs on The Big Lebowski constantly and calls her strange new meat puppet “Bernie” in reference to Weekend at Bernie’s. Her wide frame of reference, and her interest in art and stories far beyond video games, is in part informed by Tremblay’s own experiences with Gen Z, and in part a response to AI companies who scrape art and culture as a means of consuming it for reference without really experiencing a story.
“I know that one of the arguments that OpenAI and other tech companies are trying to make is like, ‘Hey, you writers, you artists, you take pop culture, you take your influences, and you create something. That’s just the same thing that the bots are doing.’ And it’s just not,” Tremblay said. “I wanted to have Julia have her outlook informed by all this pop culture, and I wanted to make that feel really human as a way to show how inhuman the AI is.”
The other side of the story belongs to “Bernie,” who’s addressed in his point-of-view chapters as “You.” In these chapters, the technology in Bernie’s body starts to flicker images through his seemingly dead brain, delivering half-remembered imagery and perspective in a nod to the “hallucinations” of an AI model groping for understanding it can never reach. These chapters in particular show off Tremblay’s flair for formalist shake-ups, and echo the kind of hyperstimulated writing that Dick and Ellison made so influential.
“I think it was more just the general Philip K. Dick feeling of ‘The world is so strange,'” Tremblay said. “He’s a lot funnier, I think, than maybe a lot of people credit him. That’s definitely what I was thinking of when writing the book.“
Bernie’s chapters embody the strangeness of Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep, presenting imagery that’s at times puzzling, at times eerily filmic, and always unnerving. They also mirror Julia’s own journey in fascinating ways as the odd couple – the Gen Z gamer and the middle-aged vegetable – traverse the United States, and the tech in Bernie’s body wakes up to the possibilities of using his flesh for its own purposes. It’s a compelling narrative technique, but it presented some new writing challenges for Tremblay.
“I quickly realized I couldn’t write this book the same way I have in the past,” he said. “By that, I mean all my other novels I had written in the order in which it was presented, even things that are nonlinear, which is most of them. I knew I couldn’t do that in this book. It’s not a spoiler, but hopefully the readers figure out pretty early that the Bernie chapters are a little bit of a preview of the next chapter from Julia, what’s actually happening with Julia. It’s all refracted from him.”

Mary Roach’s Stiff
Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep began with a simple image, inspired by Tremblay’s reading of Mary Roach‘s book chronicling the history of our treatment of corpses, Stiff. As he read, Tremblay imagined a body sitting on an airplane, remote-controlled by someone else. At the time, it was a “silly what-if” concept, filed away in his head. Years later, when he became an author suing a tech company to keep AI from scraping his work for ideas, it started to feel frighteningly plausible, taking the “silly what-if” into the territory of a high-concept horror show about what happens when we try to exploit and commodify uniquely human aspects of consciousness.
“It stuck with me,” Tremblay said of that what-if imagery. “And then a few years later, when I was a part of the case suing OpenAI on behalf of writers, that what-if suddenly didn’t seem as silly. The more I learned about how that corporation operates and without really any sort of ethical thought to anything, I was like, ‘Oh, I’m going to play with that. That’s actually happening.”
So, what if someone actually in favor of generative AI picks up Tremblay’s self-described “anti-AI screed?” He hopes that, at the very least, he’s made the ride enjoyable in a distinctly human way that might begin to reshape the conversation.
“I think that was another reason why I wanted to have the humor,” Tremblay said. “If people are reading this book who aren’t on the side of like, ‘Hey, LLMs taking authors’ books is bad,’ maybe if they read something that’s cut with some humor, that maybe they’ll be more easily swayed.”
Dead But Dreaming of Electric Sheep is now in bookstores everywhere.

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