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[Interview] Valve Discuss How VR Accentuates the Horror in ‘Half-Life: Alyx’

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Headcrabs leaping from the shadows. Fanged barnacles hanging from dark ceilings, eagerly awaiting an opportunity to pull unwary creatures into their veiny maws. The eerily mysterious G-Man, entering and exiting our universe like a knife breaking the skin.

Undercurrents of horror have always run through Valve Software’s Half-Life series. And, with Half-Life: Alyx, out today, the Seattle-based developer had the opportunity to enhance the scares, upping the intensity through the illusion of real, physical presence.

Last week, in anticipation of the launch, we sat down with Valve artist Tristan Reidford and level designer Dario Casali to talk about the way VR accentuates horror, the responsibility that comes with that, what it was like working on the beloved series after all this time and why the scariest zombie is the one you can’t see.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

Bloody Disgusting: Bloody Disgusting is, obviously, a horror website. So I wanted to ask you guys, is Half-Life: Alyx scary?

Tristan Reidford: I’m very affected by horror and scary stuff, especially jump scares. And there’s parts of this game I dread playing. I mean, it’s a thing we’ve been very responsible with in the game. Like, we definitely ramp the players into it. But, it’s still definitely a scary game, for sure.

Dario Casali: We have made attempts to avoid the shocking, startling jump scare ideas and we use more of a kind of mood and setting and atmosphere and sort of tension to develop that, rather than the instant, like, try to give people heart attacks. Although there are probably a couple of places in the games — there is one particular place in the game that I nickname “Heart Attack Hallway.” [laughs] But, that’s just one place.

BD: One of the first things that I noticed in the reveal trailer back in November was that this seemed scarier than previous games, partially because of the change of perspective that comes with VR. Like, when a headcrab jumps at you in the game it’s actually jumping at your face. Were there ways that you guys took advantage of VR as a medium to bring out the horror in a way you might not have been able to in previous Half-Life games?

TR: Right out of the gate, horror is low-hanging fruit for VR. Previously, games appeared in this little window in front of you that’s this [portal] to another world. But, as soon as you put a headset on, it’s all around you. There could be stuff behind you now and that would never have happened before. You just get that for free in VR. It’s immediately terrifying. I remember, earlier on, like before we had the engine up-and-running, we had some higher-res zombies that were made post-Left 4 Dead 2 and had put them in a room, just static models, all the way around you, and there they were right in front of you, and it was horrible. But, as you turned around to see them, the one that went out of your peripheral vision was the scariest one in the room, not the one in front of you. So, I think our job was to be responsible with this new, super low-hanging fruit for horror.

DC: The immediacy of the scale, the feel of actually being there and your body’s involved rather than just your fingers moving and the screen ahead of you being that little portal into the world, it doesn’t take a lot to establish that sense of dread; of what’s coming around the next corner, honestly. Just a little bit of darkness here and there. Because all of that sound is very spacialized. So you can have a little sound out of the corner of a dark room. And that wouldn’t do much in a flatscreen game but when you have this perception that your body is there, and the stakes are real because of the scale of things, like you say, with the headcrab jumping at your face. I had no idea how big a headcrab was until I put it into VR and I realized, oh, this thing is actually the size of a dog or something like that. 

They’re pretty scary just because of their presence in the world, and that presence is so very tactile in VR, so yeah, we didn’t have to work too hard — in fact, we probably dialed back in many instances — the level of anticipation or horror that some areas would have. Just because players would come through and they would have certain responses that we weren’t too happy about and in some cases they would pull the headset off and say, “I don’t want to play anymore because I saw this creature scuttle away in the darkness and now I don’t know where he is.” So we were careful to respect certain boundaries so that we definitely have those moments of tension and unease, but we tried not to push them over the edge so that we wouldn’t end up alienating a section of the user base.

BD: It definitely sounds like with VR and horror, a little goes a long way.

DC: Absolutely. Your whole body is involved. You’re leaning and you’re bending over and you’re reaching and when your whole body is involved it really does feel like there are stakes there. And this giant six-foot zombie in front of you, you don’t want them to get anywhere near you. Whereas on the flatscreen, it’s no big deal; you have to throw hundreds of zombies at the player on a flatscreen to make them feel like you’re being overwhelmed. But, one real-sized zombie in a small room with you is like, that’s all it takes.

BD: Are there other ways that being in VR changes your approach to level design? As a level designer approaching making a Half-Life game in VR, did it feel different to draw out a level than it did for a flatscreen game?

DC: Very much so yes. So the level of fidelity that we have in the world is a direct result of players coming through and wanting to inspect everything. And the movement speed through VR is more of a regular walking speed that you would normally take. If you look at video games, a lot of those movement speeds are like 30 miles an hour. But, when you bring things down to a human scale, we’ve found that a lot of the fidelity of the world is condensed down into more realistic-sized spaces. So the considerations we had to have in VR were a lot like “Well how much space are people going to want to traverse, because we don’t have vehicles. We don’t have very fast-moving things that could make people motion sick.” It’s all about, pretty much where you can walk around to. So there was that consideration. 

The other consideration was of course, “What’s the experience? What are interesting experiences, fun experiences in VR?” And those can be fairly different from flatscreen because you’re interacting with everything with two hands and a head and they’re all six degrees of freedom and they all have to work how you expect them to work because you don’t have this complicated keyboard in places where you have keyboard mapping of six different keys or 12 different keys that all do different things. This is all intuitive interactions. Like how do you open a door? Well, now you just grab the handle… and rotate to push the door, rather than pressing the use key or something like that. When you apply that to all of the things that happen to you in the game that you interact with, it’s a very different design process. 

As far as interacting with enemies and stuff, that’s a little more similar to regular FPS games. We just adapted the AI so they wouldn’t be overwhelming. We tried to use the fast zombies and the fast headcrabs from Half-Life 2, but they move so quickly that players were just overwhelmed by them too fast. We have a pretty complicated reloading system; you don’t just press R to reload. It’s like one of those things that we just don’t have all these keyboard mapped, it’s actually physical simulated movement, and so when somebody’s trying to actually reload a gun, using fairly real movements, and they’re being attacked by an incredibly fast monster at the time, it all falls apart. So, yeah, there are quite a few considerations in going from traditional FPS level design to VR level design.

BD: Did both of you work on the Left 4 Dead series?

DC and TR: Yep.

BD: So, the last time a Half-Life game came out you guys hadn’t made any of the Left 4 Dead games. So, were there things you learned from Left 4 Dead that you were able to bring back into the world of Half-Life?

TR: Perhaps some of the worldbuilding we did in the Left 4 Dead series. In safe rooms, there was an awful lot of work put into writing all these messages that previous people had left behind. And there’s a bit of that in Half-Life 2 as well, with the underground railroad and so on. But, in Left 4 Dead we learned that that goes a long way with players. And so, we’ve gone, as Dario was saying, like the player wants to inspect every part of the world. We put an awful lot of effort into putting a lot more of that stuff into the game, I suppose, like non-critical story items that tell a little bit of backstory or do things to the mood. One side of horror is the monsters attacking you and so on, but there are the corpses, and static stuff, that is just as fascinating and gross as the monsters because you can get right up and peer into the chest cavity of like a dead zombie. And he’s not doing anything and it’s just, “ugh.” It’s bloody and disgusting [laughs].

DC: We did a lot of work in Left 4 Dead on the visceral response, that when you shoot something it responds in a certain way that was way advanced from Half-Life. I think that was a fairly big part of the Left 4 Dead experience; just the feeling of wading through a ton of bodies with powerful guns and, subconsciously or not, we definitely put some [of that] into Half-Life: Alyx, where the characters would respond fairly realistically… when they got shot. There is definitely a combination of physics and ragdoll animations that make it rewarding when you shoot something. Especially with some of the more powerful guns in the game or explosions.

TR: There’s the banter between characters in Left 4 Dead 2, especially, and we have a bit more of that in Half-Life: Alyx as well, between Alyx and Russell, which is like a departure from Half-Life 2 where Gordon didn’t say anything. I don’t know if we consciously did it, but yeah, we definitely did that again in this game. And it was really successful in Left 4 Dead 2, I think, like characters talking to each other.

BD: So, I think when people think of Half-Life and horror, they think of Ravenholm. So, as experts on level design and art, what aspects of Ravenholm made it as memorable and horrifying as it was for players?

DC: I actually worked very heavily on Ravenholm in Half-Life 2 so I’m glad you asked that question. For that section of the game, we used tension and apprehension a lot more than out-and-out, large scale action sequences. We had a lot of darkness and sound design to get the player thinking that the town was larger than it was and scarier than it was; used enemies like the poison headcrab zombie; the guy who sounded like a cow. He was all bowed over and he had those headcrabs on his back and he would throw them at you. I think we only had one or two of those guys in the whole level, but we would use sound cues to get you feeling uneasy before you could see him. 

And we introduced the crabs that he would throw before we introduced you to him. So you’d think, “Ah crap! Those crabs were bad enough, but now we have a guy who’s throwing them at us, as well.” So, we used those same ideas in Half-Life: Alyx, where we try to prelude what’s going to happen in a few minutes or in a couple of seconds or whatever with some sound cues and some environmental storytelling or some mood setting. 

And, we have a number of those examples in Half-Life: Alyx. There is this one particular area that, it’s a giant hotel that’s been really messed up by, not just the Combine, but by Xen as well. And you come into this area and the first thing we do is just play some sounds of scuttling and you have this very long corridor with nothing in it whatsoever except some skittering headcrabs at the other end with a big bright light; you don’t even know what you’re getting yourself into. The further you get into there we’re just investing a lot of time in setting the scene and not really throwing any enemies at the player so you just build up this anticipation of “What is this space?” you know. I think that anticipation is a really big part of feeling that anxiety, rather than throwing jump scares at people it’s like what you don’t do, I think, is what’s powerful and what sets the scene. And as you get further into this area, you’re presented with a giant sort of eviscerated part of the structure where at the very bottom you have this very dark, Xen-infested basement with little creepy-crawlies in it. And you don’t have to go down there; you don’t want to go down there. You look up to the top and you realize, “Oh that’s where I have to go.” But, of course, eventually, we make you go down into that really nasty dark area with crawling enemies. But, the whole reason that works is because we set the scene to begin with and you don’t overdo the introduction of those terrifying elements and you let the player fill in all those gaps. It’s been fairly well play-tested, so… A lot of attention has been paid to that particular aspect, of setting the mood, just because it’s so powerful in VR. It doesn’t take much, as we’ve been saying, so when you really focus on that being the goal of an area, it’s pretty powerful.

BD: Does that approach apply to other aspects of the game’s tone? Like humor? People have noted from the gameplay videos that you guys have shown that this is funnier than other Half-Life games have been. But, I think when people think of comedy in games, they think of the games that overdo it, that are throwing lame jokes at you frequently and maybe one out of ten will be a hit and the rest are misses. So, was there a similar approach to humor and levity in the game, to making sure that the jokes that are there are winners?

TR: I dunno if they’re really jokes. This comes from Rhys Darby’s performance mainly, being a comedy actor. He’s like your companion on the game and like, you do feel alone in this game when you go deeper into the game. And it’s just super reassuring to know that there’s another person, even though he’s a fictional person, hanging around and talking through these things. I feel like there’s a slight brittleness about his humor, like he’s trying to make you feel better about where you’re going. It’s not like a gag machine, it’s like a little bit of nervous back-and-forth, as Russel’s with you and you’re [going into this] awful place; just an awful place to be. And because you’re invested in the story, as well, so the player wants to get through it. But, like Dario says, as the mood starts to build up and the dread starts to form, it’s just really nice having this voice in your ear just gently encouraging you to go through, and you have a couple brittle, little jokes between you. I think the writers did an amazing job with that.

DC: They do an especially good job at addressing what earlier playtesting on the product showed us which was that player’s going through this game feeling like there are these moments of tension and excitement and they kind of wanted to diffuse that sometimes, so the pacing wouldn’t be this high-set pacing. So, a lot of the writing was in response to that tension and I think that humor is a big part of that. And just those writers, I’ve worked with them for many years, they did a lot of Portal work, and Left 4 Dead work, and they seem to understand exactly — I think because of that playtesting feedback — exactly what was needed and they delivered really well. And we have some environmental humor going on, too. Like, the original Half-Life was a lot heavier on environmental humor and situational humor. Half-Life 2 sort of stepped a little bit away from that I think, but there’s definitely some of that has come back in this product.

BD: City 17 seems even more oppressive in Half-Life: Alyx than it did in past games. What goes into making it feel like a frightening, authoritarian place from a level design and art standpoint?

TR: From an art point of view, we knew the state of the world in Half-Life 2 and we knew we were turning the clock back a little bit because we’re a prequel, and we wanted to show earlier versions of some of the things you might recognize from Half-Life 2, but we didn’t want to go as far as to tell that full backstory, because some of the story players can come up with themselves and we wanted to give the player room to have that. But, again, I guess as you play through the game when you start off in the city and there are still people running around, going about their business, perhaps even more so than today [with the COVID-19 crisis], it seems. But then, you get to a point where you go through a gate and then the state of the world completely changes, when you go into what we call the “quarantine zone,” which again, seems [appropriate]. And so I suppose you have like the formal impression of the Combine invasion and how they’re trying to manage that impression and they’re not quite fully there yet, but you can see the way it’s going. But, as soon as you leave the main city and go into the quarantine zone, the impression completely changes tone. Because that’s when all the alien infestation and all the monsters show up. You’re in City 17 the whole time, but there are perhaps two or three very distinct acts to the game.

DC: We did a lot of work to try to escalate, to evolve the feel of the city over the course of the game because Alyx is basically moving toward this structure called the Vault, which is storing the secret weapon that the Combine has. So, as Alyx progresses further and further into the game and closer to this facility she excites more attention from the Combine, we have this escalation. Like, to begin with, it’s fairly safe to be moving around and as you proceed you start to encounter more heavy resistance, you start to encounter more dark environments where you have different enemies that are coming from different heights and as you get closer and closer the environment becomes more and more surreal and more and more unfamiliar… So, what we tried to do is to dial down that familiarity of the environment as the game goes on so you kind of feel more and more like you’re where you shouldn’t be.

TR: And as we’re doing that in the world the player’s proficiency in playing the game, like, it really goes on quite a noticeable ramp. Their proficiency with the weapons, with dealing with different enemies, so as the game gets more oppressive and darker, you get better and better at playing the game over the course of the thing. I think those two things work out really well.

DC: You get more comfortable with all the mechanics and all of your tools in order to deal with the scale of the threat as it goes.

BD: So, because we’re a horror website, I should ask: is it scary to be releasing a new Half-Life game after all this time?

DC: [laughs] I think there is this humility that comes along with working on this IP, which is, “Hey we really want to do a good job, and we really want to put out something that people are excited to play.” And that’s always a very scary prospect. That aside, the fact that this is in VR has given this invigoration. It’s like a new frontier to explore the Half-Life IP with and I think it’s given us a lot of very interesting, fruitful results of our work. Just the VR platform itself has really worked well for Half-Life. So part of that trepidation of working on another Half-Life game is “what is going to be the big selling point of Half-Life 3?” We had such major selling points to the previous ones and big innovations and stuff and big differentiators in Half-Life 2 from what was available at the time. And I think VR gives us that this time which alleviates some of that terror of how do you follow in those footsteps. Like what do we do next? And I think VR is a great answer for that, and I think we’ve seen that it’s given us a lot of novelty and a lot of invigoration for the franchise.

TR: We never ran out of ideas, I think, and a lot of our ideas, it was difficult work and required a lot of iteration and playtesting. But, enough of them worked that just as the project’s gone on we’ve gotten more and more confident that this is going to be good, and that we were going to be able to put something out that respects the fans who are waiting for the next Half-Life game and so like right now as it’s all coming together, the music is coming in, the whole experience is coming together when you play it. Like, I hadn’t actually played the start of the game for months. I’d been working on different parts of the thing… but, I put it on and played through the first few levels and I was genuinely blown away by it. Just seeing everything in place, all the choreo animations, all the music, all the tone, all the pacing. So yeah, I don’t think I am really scared at all. I’m pumped.

BD: Now if I’m remembering correctly, the first game that you worked on at Valve was Half-Life 2: Episode Two?

TR: Yeah, I built a few models for that.

BD: So, I would imagine that you would be excited to get to return to that world after coming in right at the very end of it.

TR: Yeah, very much so! Over the past 12 years, I’ve had lots of things that I’ve been really excited to do for the next Half-Life game. And it was just like a child in a candy store when we first started working.

Half-Life: Alyx is out now on Steam. Compatible VR Kit required. 

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Interviews

Avalon Fast on Women, Witches, and the Intoxicating Nature of Girl Horror ‘Camp’

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Avalon Fast interview Camp

Of all the places to find a coven of witches, the attic above a Christian youth camp is probably the last place you’d think to look. But that’s just what we find in Camp, a surrealist nightmare of feminist empowerment from Canadian filmmaker Avalon Fast.

Emily (Zola Grimmer) is still reckoning with her involvement in a horrific tragedy when she accidentally contributes to the death of her best friend, Charlie (Giselle Morison). Unable to move on, the traumatized teen takes a job at a rural summer camp, hoping to forget her own sorrows by looking after at-risk kids. She quickly connects with a counselor named Clara (Alice Wordsworth) and finds comfort in her close-knit group of female friends. But a mysterious whisper from deep in the woods warns that they may be leading her down a darker path.  

Fast burst onto the scene in 2022 with Honeycomb, a psychological horror film that follows a burgeoning matriarchy. Known for their focus onGirl Horrorstories, the talented young filmmaker tackles similar themes in Camp as Emily leaves the modern world behind to embrace a dark vision of self-discovery through magic.

Ahead of the film’s U.S. release on June 26, Bloody Disgusting sat down with Fast to chat about the nebulous nature of good vs. evil and the intoxicating power of female-driven horror. 

Avalon Fast Camp Interview

Bloody Disgusting: What inspired this unique story? Did you go to religious summer camps when you were young? 

Avalon Fast: I did. I went to lots of different summer camps, but all of them were primarily Bible camps. The memory I have of camp is kind of strange. I was very homesick as a kid, and I didn’t necessarily enjoy all my time there. I definitely remember meeting some interesting girls at camp and having that presence of religion hovering around the whole experience. 

BD: I really love the film’s gorgeous natural setting. Camp is the kind of surrealist nightmare that you don’t just watch. You feel it too. How did you approach creating this world? 

AF: Well, a huge part of it was working with my cinematographer Eily Sprungman, who’s a very close friend. We spent years prepping, shot listing, storyboarding, and mood boarding. She’d had a similar experience to mine. We grew up around the same place, and so we understood each other’s visions from the get-go. But there are so many other pieces that came together. The costuming, the art, and the animated sequences were done by Sofiya Iurkevych. One of our producers, Taylor Nodrick, was obsessed with shooting on Super 8 film. I’ve always wanted to as well, so all the memory sequences were shot on Super 8. It was just a lot of people with an understanding and a vision for what this project was. I’m really happy with the way it turned out.

To the extent that you’re comfortable sharing, what’s your relationship to witchcraft, and what does Camp have to say about modern witches?

Well, that’s the question of Camp. It’s not that I don’t resonate with any of these things, but I specifically wanted Camp to be a little bit ambiguous around what witchcraft looks like. Is this witchcraft? Are these girls witches? Emily explicitly asks if that’s what’s happening here, and the answer isn’t yes. The film isn’t going to answer that question for you. My relationship to magic and witchcraft? It’s tough. I feel like there’s so much magic, connection, and spirituality that comes from these friendships, the closeness of these women, and what’s happening around them. A lot of what Camp is trying to say or show is just that magic can come out of friendship.

I loved watching these female friendships develop. And you’re right. No one ever says the wordcoven,but you can feel that connection, and you can see a change in Emily as those relationships grow. I’m also really fascinated with the way Camp plays with the idea of good and evil. At one point, Clara says,Maybe God drew us to the devil,which stopped me in my tracks. How do you view witchcraft or the magic these girls are experiencing in regard to good and evil? 

That was such a huge part of the script’s construction. The story is really trying to keep a balance between those two things. I like asking people if they think these girls are good or bad, because I feel like a lot of people come out of the film thinking one or the other. They’ll say things likethank God Emily found her peopleorGod, I really wish she’d gone home.I just don’t think there’s ever an answer. I wanted to explore the idea of going down the wrong path, especially coming out of grief. What makes you a bad person, and does healing mean you’re looking to become a better person? I don’t have an answer, but I do feel like that’s a huge part of what Camp is asking. What is good? What is bad? Why did God bring me to the devil? 

Yes, because this is all happening atGod campin Emily’s words. So how can both of those things exist at the same time? Along those lines, I’m also fascinated by the voice Emily hears in the woods. Without spoiling too much, what is this voice asking, and what is required in return?

Emily comes to camp with a shout into the void, asking can anyone hear me? Does anyone want to? And it’s answered so clearly by these girls, specifically responding only with love, care, support, and trust. It’s like her prayers were answered. It doesn’t mean that everything is going to be alright, but Emily is looking for peace. She’s looking for a moment where she feels pure good. And I think, even at its surface level, she does get that experience. 

Personally, I don’t really think people are good or bad. I think we all exist somewhere in the middle. Camp centers traditionally villainized characters, but that’s where Emily seems to find her peace, however you choose to define it. 

I also wanted to show the experience of having decided that you are a bad person, you’ve made mistakes, and you feel cursed. Then when you meet other people who have done things that you would consider worse, you can actually feel good in their presence. You feel like less of a bad person. I think that’s a huge part of the story as well. Emily’s finding her version of other fucked up people, and she feels less fucked up around them. I’ve found that in my own life. It’s a cool thing. I don’t think it’s bad.

I don’t think it’s bad either. It’s finding your home, your people. We meet Emily in the aftermath of unthinkable trauma. Is this a story about mental health and healing? 

Witnessing it myself. witnessing other people experience tragedy and then move through grief, you hear a lot of talk about healing or coming out the other side. There’s so much conversation around what that looks like, with self-care and showing up for yourself. I always felt really averse to it. It annoyed me. I think the beginning of the film speaks to that. The therapeutic version of what getting help looks like is obviously very different from what Camp is showing. And again, I don’t have an answer for what you’re supposed to do. But I think that’s another question I was asking: how do you heal? Do you heal at all? Is that the end goal, or are we just trying to get better? It’s something I experienced in my own grief. And the answer, for me, at least now, is just that I’m not looking to get better. So I felt like I hadn’t. I found it hard to find people to have those conversations with. And I think that’s what I ultimately wanted to make a film about. 

I love that unanswered question. In my own experience, I’ve had to reframe what healing actually looks like. There’s not really an endpoint. It’s just finding a way to keep going. There’s also an element of sacrifice in this story, particularly regarding another counselor named Jo (Sophie Bawks-Smith). What role does she play in Emily’s journey? 

For me, Jo is this human embodiment of Charlie, Emily’s friend. As Jo, she had a life at this camp before meeting Emily, and then was kind of taken over by Charlie’s spirit. I think a lot of people view Emily’s final choice as horrendous and tragic. In a way it is, but for me, if Jo becomes her angel, it’s almost like a self-sacrifice. Jo knows that by sacrificing herself, she’ll be giving Emily power to move forward. In the original script, the girls were supposed to bring out another counselor, JB (Aidan Laudersmith), and burn his body. But I just thought, there’s no way sacrificing this guy could give the girls enough power. There’s just no way, right? Logically, that just didn’t line up for me. 

I’m glad you mentioned JB, because he has his own tragic arc. How do men factor into the world of Camp? 

The way men factor into my world is so bizarre. I have such little respect for them in my films, which is something I’ve been called on. I think I have to challenge myself in the future to make a movie about a boy because, these boys … It’s not that the men in my films aren’t redeemable, but there’s no depth to these characters. They’re just treated with such disrespect. I don’t know why I do that, actually. That’s something for me to look into. It was the same with Honeycomb. They’re just such peripheral characters. I’ve had people ask about Kayne (Henri Gillespi), the scary guy at the fire, what happens to him? I just think, I don’t know. I don’t care. That’s not the point of the story. 

Well, I can say after a lifetime of watching women on the periphery of the story, the course correction feels nice. In a similar vein, I’m in love with your homepage, avalonfast.com. There’s an image of girls on a film set and then a still from Honeycomb in which a blood-covered girl is screaming at the sky. And in the middle, it just says Girl Horror. It’s a really powerful statement that gives me chills. How do you define Girl Horror, and what draws you to these types of stories? 

I was obsessed with the term when I started making my movies. It was something I’d come up with to kind of brand myself and describe what I was doing. Then I went through a period where I felt like it was a bit gender exclusive and didn’t interest me as much. But now I’ve come full circle on the term. I think it’s a bit of a commentary on youth and the horror of growing up female. But I think everybody can relate to that experience. I don’t want it to feel like this exclusive thing, that I make movies exclusively for girls, because I don’t think I do. I’m interested in exploring what Girl Horror means. Originally, it was just a title, something I came up with, and now it’s become something that resonates with people. You said it gave you chills. That’s cool for me to hear because there’s obviously some depth there. 

Are you working on anything new? 

Yes. I am actually making a movie about a boy. That’s the next thing. 

That’s exciting! The more I think about feminism, the more I end up coming back to men and boys, because they have a place in the world of Girl Horror too.  

Absolutely. It’s all just part of being human.

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